TFL Hopper fare grace period?

[GodAtum]

Since the Southern timetable change, I've been struggling to make my 2nd bus within an hour of the 1st one. I'm usually 5-10 minutes over the hour, but sometimes it doesn't charge. Does anyone know the official grace period?

 

[RobusPP]

You have 70 minutes. You get a 10 min grace period.

 

[RobusPP]

In fact you can take as many buses as you like within that 70 min period.

Hypothetically, one could make a journey Sidcup - Bromley (269) (25 min), Bromley - Croydon (119) (38 minutes) then connect on the Croydon to Heathrow (X26) with a distance over 30 miles for £1.50. I'm sure there are farther journeys possible for that hopper fare; I just haven't bothered to look more closely.

 

[GodAtum]

the hour doesn't reset after every bus tap in though?

 

[RobusPP]

No, it doesn't.

 

[Ianno87]

the hour doesn't reset after every bus tap in though?

That would be daft. You'd get a day's bus travel for £1.50 just by randomly tapping in on buses all day long even if not actually travelling...

 

[PeterC]

How accurate is the timestamping on the readers? Are they corrected in real time or only when at the depot?

Despite the grace period I assume that there is only a "right" to 60 minutes and if, say, the first journey was timestamped a minute or two early there would be no redress over being charged again at 69 minutes.

 

[GodAtum]

It's so hard for me to make the 70 minutes. I was just under by a few seconds today!

 

[Busaholic]

It's so hard for me to make the 70 minutes. I was just under by a few seconds today!

This will become an ever-increasing problem for people seeking to take advantage of the hopper facility, firstly because of increasing journey times and, secondly (associated with the first), increased headways and therefore waits for that second 'free' bus ride. I've been a critic of the hopper since its introduction because I thought then (and still think now) that a better solution could have been achieved, but, given that it happened, it should have allowed 90 minutes (plus 'grace' period) from the off. The latter will have to happen imo, so why not go on and implement it right now?

 

[Robertj21a]

This will become an ever-increasing problem for people seeking to take advantage of the hopper facility, firstly because of increasing journey times and, secondly (associated with the first), increased headways and therefore waits for that second 'free' bus ride. I've been a critic of the hopper since its introduction because I thought then (and still think now) that a better solution could have been achieved, but, given that it happened, it should have allowed 90 minutes (plus 'grace' period) from the off. The latter will have to happen imo, so why not go on and implement it right now?

The bus fare is ridiculously cheap already. Why on earth should they extend the hopper fare even more ?

 

[PeterC]

The bus fare is ridiculously cheap already. Why on earth should they extend the hopper fare even more ?

This will become an ever-increasing problem for people seeking to take advantage of the hopper facility, firstly because of increasing journey times and, secondly (associated with the first), increased headways and therefore waits for that second 'free' bus ride. I've been a critic of the hopper since its introduction because I thought then (and still think now) that a better solution could have been achieved, but, given that it happened, it should have allowed 90 minutes (plus 'grace' period) from the off. The latter will have to happen imo, so why not go on and implement it right now?

No problem, next fare round the hopper time goes up to 90 minutes and the fare goes up to £2.50 which is a "reduction" because you would have paid £3 before.

 

[GodAtum]

This will become an ever-increasing problem for people seeking to take advantage of the hopper facility, firstly because of increasing journey times and, secondly (associated with the first), increased headways and therefore waits for that second 'free' bus ride. I've been a critic of the hopper since its introduction because I thought then (and still think now) that a better solution could have been achieved, but, given that it happened, it should have allowed 90 minutes (plus 'grace' period) from the off. The latter will have to happen imo, so why not go on and implement it right now?

Some bus drivers are kind, if there is a lot of traffic, they'll let you touch in after the jam. Also if a wheelchair is boarding, people will try and push in if there is only a few minutes left to spare.

 

[radamfi]

The aim is (or should be) to ensure that you pay the same fare for a single journey regardless of whether the single journey involves one or more vehicles. The vast majority of single bus journeys last less than one hour in total and only a small minority involve boarding the last vehicle more than one hour after the initial boarding. Previously, single journeys, even short distance ones, might have cost £1.50, £3 or £4.50 depending on the number of changes required. Therefore there was a high disincentive to use buses where changes were involved. Not all single journeys in London cost £1.50 even now. Single journeys involving changes between bus and tube cost substantially more.

 

[Busaholic]

No problem, next fare round the hopper time goes up to 90 minutes and the fare goes up to £2.50 which is a "reduction" because you would have paid £3 before.

No problem, next fare round the hopper time goes up to 90 minutes and the fare goes up to £2.50 which is a "reduction" because you would have paid £3 before.

I've been arguing something similar for some time, on this and other forums. Nobody mentions the three bus fare daily cap, which still applies, in all this! I'd reduce that to a two fare cap, and increase the fare from £1.50. which is too low by any standard. Then, hey, scrap Hopper!

 

[Busaholic]

The aim is (or should be) to ensure that you pay the same fare for a single journey regardless of whether the single journey involves one or more vehicles. The vast majority of single bus journeys last less than one hour in total and only a small minority involve boarding the last vehicle more than one hour after the initial boarding. Previously, single journeys, even short distance ones, might have cost £1.50, £3 or £4.50 depending on the number of changes required. Therefore there was a high disincentive to use buses where changes were involved. Not all single journeys in London cost £1.50 even now. Single journeys involving changes between bus and tube cost substantially more.

Why on earth should any single journey in London cost £1.50? Assuming the Greater London boundary applies, if you wish to travel from Waltham Cross outskirts to Caterham you should pay a lot more than that for the privilege. Please name me any city in the western world that would allow that combination of distance and time by multiple modes for a commensurate sum.

 

[radamfi]

Why on earth should any single journey in London cost £1.50? Assuming the Greater London boundary applies, if you wish to travel from Waltham Cross outskirts to Caterham you should pay a lot more than that for the privilege. Please name me any city in the western world that would allow that combination of distance and time by multiple modes for a commensurate sum.

It doesn't have to be £1.50. It doesn't even have to be the same for all single journeys. But it should be the same regardless of number of changes.

 

[Merseysider]

Why on earth should any single journey in London cost £1.50? Assuming the Greater London boundary applies, if you wish to travel from Waltham Cross outskirts to Caterham you should pay a lot more than that for the privilege. Please name me any city in the western world that would allow that combination of distance and time by multiple modes for a commensurate sum.

Toronto (£1.75), Vancouver (£1.35), Seattle (£2.10), Ottawa (£1.95), Berlin (£2.45), Montreal (£1.90), Paris (£1.75), I could go on...

 

[WelshBluebird]

I guess with Oyster it doesn't matter so much, but for those of us who live in areas where the buses still take cash, flat fares (or at the very least obvious "zonal" fares) are pretty important in speeding up the boarding of services!

 

[radamfi]

I guess with Oyster it doesn't matter so much, but for those of us who live in areas where the buses still take cash, flat fares (or at the very least obvious "zonal" fares) are pretty important in speeding up the boarding of services!

Bus companies are still faffing with stage based fares even now when they could have introduced zonal fares decades ago, meaning they could have introduced appropriate off bus ticketing to speed up boarding. So they clearly have little interest in speeding up boarding times. Bus companies complain that their buses are stuck in traffic, but if they can't even help themselves then you could argue that the council shouldn't bother with bus priority.