TfW Does Not Show Rover/Ranger Tickets

[Envoy]

I have just been on the Transport for Wales website to look for Rover/Ranger tickets but found nothing. https://tfw.wales

I think this is a poor show - unless I am stupid and just failed to spot any link? (I was really hoping to find a Marches Line Rover).

 

[Krokodil]

Rovers and Rangers | Transport for Wales

Transport for Wales | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

tfw.wales

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The TfW web site calls the North Wales 1-day ticket a "Rover", but then the map and advice where to buy calls it a "Ranger".
(The map's titles say Rover in Welsh and Ranger in English!).
This 1-day ticket appears to have no time restrictions, whereas TfW's more expensive Rover tickets are mostly restricted to after 0930 M-F.
That makes the all-zone 1-day ticket a bargain.

 

[Envoy]

Many thanks for the quick responses. They don’t seem to have maps for all the Ranger/Rover tickets. Those who are not familiar with the routes will be confused as to which lines are covered.

 

[Watershed]

Many thanks for the quick responses. They don’t seem to have maps for all the Ranger/Rover tickets. Those who are not familiar with the routes will be confused as to which lines are covered.

The NRE site is, in general, your best bet for this information as it has validity maps - though the information on the maps or Ranger/Rover pages sometimes contradicts other official sources such as the TOC's own website. In that case, you can rely on whichever is more favourable to you.

 

[Envoy]

The NRE site is, in general, your best bet for this information as it has validity maps - though the information on the maps or Ranger/Rover pages sometimes contradicts other official sources such as the TOC's own website. In that case, you can rely on whichever is more favourable to you.

Many thanks Watershed. I did indeed try the NRE site first and when I clicked on one of the TfW Rover links - it came up with link failed (or similar).

 

[RJ]

The NRE site is, in general, your best bet for this information as it has validity maps - though the information on the maps or Ranger/Rover pages sometimes contradicts other official sources such as the TOC's own website. In that case, you can rely on whichever is more favourable to you.

I think NRE is providing less information than it once did.

I’ve been looking at buying an Explore Wales pass today. In the absence of a validity map on the TfW website, I looked on NRE. No map and advertising the price at £99 when TfW’s site is saying £109 - https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/tickets-railcards-offers/promotions/explore-wales/#

 

[mangyiscute]

I'm a big fan of http://www.railrover.org/ - its not an official resource so there's always a chance that it's wrong, but in my experience it has been correct (apart from maybe a couple out of date prices) and provides the clearest layout of when and where the rovers are available, also one of the easiest ways to discover new rangers/rovers you didn't know existed.

 

[30907]

The TfW web site calls the North Wales 1-day ticket a "Rover", but then the map and advice where to buy calls it a "Ranger".
(The map's titles say Rover in Welsh and Ranger in English!).

TfW have confused themselves, as it is shown among the multi-day Rover tickets (and doesn't actually say how long it is valid for.

This 1-day ticket appears to have no time restrictions, whereas TfW's more expensive Rover tickets are mostly restricted to after 0930 M-F.
That makes the all-zone 1-day ticket a bargain.

Indeed it is.

They don’t seem to have maps for all the Ranger/Rover tickets. Those who are not familiar with the routes will be confused as to which lines are covered.

The text descriptions are clear enough IMO not to confuse though I think could be made clearer.

 

[RJ]

The text descriptions are clear enough IMO not to confuse though I think could be made clearer.

Maybe for people who already have an encyclopaedic knowledge of the rail network and could probably draw a map themselves!

I mean I’m looking at their website which does clearly say that you can go anywhere in Wales with the Explore Wales Pass. In the absence of a map, I did wonder if the Hereford to Shrewsbury line was included. The only reference I could find was

“All stations in Wales plus extensions into England bounded by Shotton - Crewe - Abergavenny and Chepstow - Gloucester.”

It’s a technical statement that isn’t easy for everyone to understand. To make sense of that, people might have to ask someone else for help or possess the skills to locate a broader map and cross reference it with this information. By which time some potential customers would have written it off as too difficult.

 

[redreni]

It’s a technical statement that isn’t easy for everyone to understand. To make sense of that, people might have to ask someone else for help or possess the skills to locate a broader map and cross reference it with this information. By which time some potential customers would have written it off as too difficult.

I suspect TfW would be fine with that, sadly.

 

[Envoy]

Many thanks everyone for your further responses. It seems that TfW need to get their act together and have a clear route validity map for all their Rover offerings and clearly state the number of day(s) validity.

I have just clicked on the Explore Cardiff Rover for which they do indeed include a map. However, the some odd reason - they exclude Lisvane station. Lisvane is clearly a part of Cardiff and it is rather niggley that it excluded - especially as it is the station for the wonderful Cefn-Onn-Onn Park. Presumably, if people have to purchase another ticket for the 1 mile or so from Llanishen, it makes the Rover unviable?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Not ideal but suppose the boundary for the "Explore the Capital" one day, off peak product has to be somewhere, noting that Lisvane & Thornhill station is over five miles from Cardiff Central. So, which additional station(s), if any, should be included in the ticket's validity?

 

[Mollman]

Maybe for people who already have an encyclopaedic knowledge of the rail network and could probably draw a map themselves!

I mean I’m looking at their website which does clearly say that you can go anywhere in Wales with the Explore Wales Pass. In the absence of a map, I did wonder if the Hereford to Shrewsbury line was included. The only reference I could find was

“All stations in Wales plus extensions into England bounded by Shotton - Crewe - Abergavenny and Chepstow - Gloucester.”

It’s a technical statement that isn’t easy for everyone to understand. To make sense of that, people might have to ask someone else for help or possess the skills to locate a broader map and cross reference it with this information. By which time some potential customers would have written it off as too difficult.

I read that recently when doing my own research and first thing I thought was "so I can't use it from Chester?". The map on Railrover.org was very useful

 

[Envoy]

The boundary of the City of Cardiff is on Caerphilly Mountain - so it would be logical for Lisvane to be included in the Explore Cardiff ticket.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

The boundary of the City of Cardiff is on Caerphilly Mountain - so it would be logical for Lisvane to be included in the Explore Cardiff ticket.

As a 'quid pro quo', are any of the ticket's other outlier stations situated outwith the City of Cardiff boundary and so might be excluded? Penarth or Eastbrook maybe?

 

[Envoy]

As a 'quid pro quo', are any of the ticket's other outlier stations situated outwith the City of Cardiff boundary and so might be excluded? Penarth or Eastbrook maybe?

Everything south of Grangetown is in the Vale of Glamorgan County - although at one time, it was all one county called South Glamorgan.

 

[Djgr]

On a slight tangent, validity often seems to forget about Hawarden Bridge, which when I last looked was still in Wales.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

“All stations in Wales plus extensions into England bounded by Shotton - Crewe - Abergavenny and Chepstow - Gloucester.”

What it isn't, strangely, is a TfW Network Rover, which you would think would be easier to market than "Wales plus the Marches".
There might be some Tourist Board influence here, who don't want to spend their money promoting someone else's domain.
The North Wales ranger ticket is linked to local authority areas, and the "Denbighshire" zone is all of 5 miles of the NWML from Prestatyn to Rhyl (plus a range of bus services).

 

[Kite159]

On a slight tangent, validity often seems to forget about Hawarden Bridge, which when I last looked was still in Wales.

Most likely due to that station previously only seeing a token service, only since December has most (if not all) trains called there (by request, although in practice I suspect most call)

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

What it isn't, strangely, is a TfW Network Rover, which you would think would be easier to market than "Wales plus the Marches".
There might be some Tourist Board influence here, who don't want to spend their money promoting someone else's domain.
The North Wales ranger ticket is linked to local authority areas, and the "Denbighshire" zone is all of 5 miles of the NWML from Prestatyn to Rhyl (plus a range of bus services).

The English "borders" part of the franchise is generally the most profitable (or requires substantially/comparatively less subsidy than Welsh routes) and is the bit that is generally controlled or specified by DfT.

DfT is fairly neutral on products like these - certainly not interested in expanding them (if anything getting rid of them simplifies things and it would mainly be the enthusiastic market that would complain.

Rangers/rovers are definitely a legacy product and even though new ones are occasionally introduced, they're rarely commercially successful and are normally to show that a company is considering ESG issues.

Unless/until you fully integrate these into journey planners and apps etc, that's how they will always remain.

Foreign customers looking for multi use products are generally going to be heading to InterRail or Britrail - so the audience is a limited domestic one, and once you have a partner and a couple of kids, you may as well take the car.

Enthusiasts are generally the only market these reach.

 

[MCR247]

Another thing that makes these ticket more difficult to use than necessary is the fact they can’t be bought from TVMs. I’ve had to go back and forth with staff manning the ticket gates before who insist “you can’t buy any tickets on the train!”

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Another thing that makes these ticket more difficult to use than necessary is the fact they can’t be bought from TVMs. I’ve had to go back and forth with staff manning the ticket gates before who insist “you can’t buy any tickets on the train!”

They are available at thousands of TVMs across the network, albeit TfW ones admittedly do not have this support yet.

Northern, c2c, Avanti, London Overground, Elizabeth line and possibly now TPE at their newer machines, all support these products.

 

[Krokodil]

They are available at thousands of TVMs across the network, albeit TfW ones admittedly do not have this support yet.

Any TfW station with a ticket barrier will have a human you can buy a rover from anyway. Even if the booking office is short-staffed the barrier staff will have a handheld machine, so there should be no question of being refused access because the facilities to buy them weren't there.

 

[MCR247]

Any TfW station with a ticket barrier will have a human you can buy a rover from anyway. Even if the booking office is short-staffed the barrier staff will have a handheld machine, so there should be no question of being refused access because the facilities to buy them weren't there.

The only problem is when the ticket office is closed!

 

[Dai Corner]

The only problem is when the ticket office is closed!

In which case you should be able to buy from the guard on the train.

In my experience the excess fares office at Cardiff Central will happily refund a single from a Valley Lines station and issue a Rover instead.

 

[Envoy]

I don't think that Rover tickets just appeal to enthusiasts as surely, they would encourage use of the rail system given the freedom to hop on/off trains at will in a given area? Just think if someone say in Cardiff or Newport wanted to visit Abergavenny, Ludlow and Shrewsbury on a single day trip. Not knowing when exactly they would be ‘done’ with each town means that they would have to purchase separate tickets for each leg. A Marches Day Ranger would make things so much simpler and surely boost rail use by the general public?

 

[Dai Corner]

I don't think that Rover tickets just appeal to enthusiasts as surely, they would encourage use of the rail system given the freedom to hop on/off trains at will in a given area? Just think if someone say in Cardiff or Newport wanted to visit Abergavenny, Ludlow and Shrewsbury on a single day trip. Not knowing when exactly they would be ‘done’ with each town means that they would have to purchase separate tickets for each leg. A Marches Day Ranger would make things so much simpler and surely boost rail use by the general public?

A Day Return would cover that, assuming they didn't want to double back.

I don't think 'normals' hop on and off trains several times a day outside central London and other other large cities where public transport is the default.

 

[gazthomas]

TFWs own map for the North Wales Day Ranger (aka North Wales Rover) clearly shows a direct railway line from Colwyn Bay to Llandudno. The nearest thing, the electric tramway was gone by the 1950s!

 

[Haywain]

TFWs own map for the North Wales Day Ranger (aka North Wales Rover) clearly shows a direct railway line from Colwyn Bay to Llandudno. The nearest thing, the electric tramway was gone by the 1950s!

Are you sure there's no direct trains between the two places?