Job titles of the Guard role.

[stadler]

I have been told by a Guard i was speaking to on TFW that they are planning to change their job title of all of their Guards from "Conductor" to "Train Manager" soon. This seems like an odd decision. Does anyone know any more about information this? What are TFW trying to achieve here by changing their job title?

Out of all the job titles on the railway "Train Manager" has to be my least favourite by far. I dislike it because the "Train Manager" job title does not suit the job or describe the job and i think nobody would associate the word manager with a guards job. Also no ordinary passenger ever uses this term (to a passenger "Guard" or "Conductor" or "Ticket Inspector" are the only terms they will use) so they are never going to be known as a "Train Manager" by passengers which makes the job title even more pointless. A manager is normally somebody high up who is in charge of running a company or somebody managing a certain part of a company. When you hear "Train Manager" you think of somebody who works in the head office. A guard is certainly not what comes to mind. They should just keep the "Conductor" title.

I seem to remember that VTEC changed the title "Train Manager" shortly before LNER took over. Merseyrail have also changed their job title to "Train Manager" recently. I am curious why lots of TOCs seem to keep switching to this title? What is wrong with "Conductor" or "Guard" which are both far more well known and well understood by passengers?

 

[godfreycomplex]

I have been told by a Guard i was speaking to on TFW that they are planning to change their job title of all of their Guards from "Conductor" to "Train Manager" soon. This seems like an odd decision. Does anyone know any more about information this? What are TFW trying to achieve here by changing their job title?

Out of all the job titles on the railway "Train Manager" has to be my least favourite by far. I dislike it because the "Train Manager" job title does not suit the job or describe the job and i think nobody would associate the word manager with a guards job. Also no ordinary passenger ever uses this term (to a passenger "Guard" or "Conductor" or "Ticket Inspector" are the only terms they will use) so they are never going to be known as a "Train Manager" by passengers which makes the job title even more pointless. A manager is normally somebody high up who is in charge of running a company or somebody managing a certain part of a company. When you hear "Train Manager" you think of somebody who works in the head office. A guard is certainly not what comes to mind. They should just keep the "Conductor" title.

I seem to remember that VTEC changed the title "Train Manager" shortly before LNER took over. Merseyrail have also changed their job title to "Train Manager" recently. I am curious why lots of TOCs seem to keep switching to this title? What is wrong with "Conductor" or "Guard" which are both far more well known and well understood by passengers?

VTEC took on booking on catering staff and Merseyrail took on revenue so it was felt best to change the name of their roles at that point. The first “Train Managers” in the UK were on Eurostar, it’s a direct translation from the French “chef de train”.

Spare a thought also for GNER guards, who were styled “Customer Operations Leader” (yeauch)

Conductor is a ghastly Americanism so I’m quite glad to see the back of it personally

 

[stadler]

VTEC took on booking on catering staff and Merseyrail took on revenue so it was felt best to change the name of their roles at that point. The first “Train Managers” in the UK were on Eurostar, it’s a direct translation from the French “chef de train”.

Spare a thought also for GNER guards, who were styled “Customer Operations Leader” (yeauch)

Conductor is a ghastly Americanism so I’m quite glad to see the back of it personally

Ah yes i forgot about GNER calling them "Customer Operations Leaders" back then. I forget the other titles but i seem to remember that GNER changed the titles of lots of other jobs at the same time and most of the other titles were similarly ridiculous and did not describe the job well.

Another one was C2C (who had Guards on the twelve coach 357s until 2017) who used the "Train Captain" job title which is an even more ridiculous job title than "Train Manager" is. You also have Lumo with their ridiculous sounding "Customer Driver" and "Customer Experience Ambassador" job titles.

I personally much prefer Guard and think this is the best title. Sadly only two TOCs (Irish Rail and South Western Railway) still use this title these days. I seem to remember Guard was used as the sole title for decades until at some point in their later years British Rail decided to start rolling out the "Conductor" title. I am not much of a fan of "Conductor" either as i agree it seems quite an American term but i do still think "Conductor" is far better than "Train Manager" as it is a more widely understood title.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Conductor is a ghastly Americanism so I’m quite glad to see the back of it personally

Is it? I thought it came from the world of buses to describe a revenue guard.

 

[reb0118]

Conductor can mean leader or guide. In France the conducteur is the driver as in Germany Zugführer is the driver.

I suppose the closest German term for a train guard is Wache but I'm sure they more often use Konductor. In France we have Chef de Train and/or Contrôl.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Conductor can mean leader or guide. In France the conducteur is the driver as in Germany Zugführer is the driver.

I suppose the closest German term for a train guard is Wache but I'm sure they more often use Konductor. In France we have Chef de Train and/or Contrôl.

Schaffner and Zugbegleiter are common German terms for the role, the former being quite archaic and I think more similar to a bus conductor.

I have never heard Konduktor but with the rapid Anglicisation of the language it wouldn't surprise me.

 

[reb0118]

I have never heard Konduktor but with the rapid Anglicisation of the language it wouldn't surprise me.

TBF I've never actually seen that on a name badge but have seen it on notices reserving whole compartments on corridor stock as "Nur fur Konductor"- I assume that means only for conductors.

 

[Bletchleyite]

TBF I've never actually seen that on a name badge but have seen it on notices reserving whole compartments on corridor stock as "Nur fur Konductor"- I assume that means only for conductors.

Must be more recent as part of the creeping Anglicisation of the German language I noted above - whenever I've seen that done it's said Dienstabteil, which literally means "service compartment" but doesn't necessarily mean you get get food/drink there (though on night trains without restaurants you sometimes can). Or Swiss/Austrian which is sometimes different?

Anyway, back to Welsh I guess (which is also Anglicising a bit at times) - popty ping?

(To the OP, is it worth renaming this thread to "job titles for guards" as it's pretty inevitably going to go much wider than TfW?)

 

[Mcr Warrior]

As far as Joe Public is concerned, does "Train Manager" suggest that the staff member perhaps has a higher status or additional responsibilities than "Guard"?

 

[Bletchleyite]

As far as Joe Public is concerned, does "Train Manager" suggest that the staff member perhaps has a higher status or additional responsibilities than "Guard"?

It does have a bit of an undertone of that 1990s fad of calling people things like "checkout sales manager" or "refuse collection manager" so when someone said "can I speak to a manager please?" they could cheekily say "I am one". This seems to have largely gone away, though, fortunately (and was always bypassed by using the term "YOUR manager" instead anyway).

 

[43066]

As far as Joe Public is concerned, does "Train Manager" suggest that the staff member perhaps has a higher status or additional responsibilities than "Guard"?

It can imply other staff on the train over whom the person has authority, in addition to their guarding duties; customer hosts, for example. That’s one of the reasons it’s used on the intercity bit of my TOC, whereas the local side guards are known as Senior Conductors.

The roles also have different Ts and Cs, for historical reasons.

 

[185]

Conductor is an Americanism, introduced by some pleb under BR whilst pushing for the introduction of ticket checks to differentiate the two jobs.

Guard comes from 1784, from Royal Mail carriages who had a guard dressed in red, complete with a timepiece and a pair of large guns which to this day, is the very same PPE required for guards working the last Blackpool.

Train Manager is a nonsense name invented by someone behind a desk with an aversion to trains, passengers and daylight - what works in France doesn't always work here.

As for the Germans, I'm quite sure their driver is called ein Lokführer more frequently than ein Zugführer as mentioned above.

 

[DMckduck97]

Train manager in a way makes sense on the intercity trains where typically there may be 3 or 4 members of staff on board who are managed and whose responsibility are the TMs.

Joe public don't care what they are called as long as the train runs (preferably on time)

 

[Bletchleyite]

As for the Germans, I'm quite sure their driver is called ein Lokführer more frequently than ein Zugführer as mentioned above.

They're actually quite specific, if it's a MU (e.g. most ICEs and regional stuff now) it's Triebfahrzeugfuehrer which translates roughly as "multiple unit driver" (literally "powered vehicle driver") - you only use "Lok" if it actually is one!

 

[warwickshire]

On Chiltern Railways until around 2010 to 2011, guards was called Train Hosts, when about that time, the Mk3s arrived, with the 67s, and guards, also went through to London Marylebone, which saw back then a major upgrade in their duties, the job title changed to Train Manager.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Don't worry, in a few years time, they'll be called "consultants"....

 

[Sly Sloth]

On Board Supervisor! Southern rebranding will not be beaten!

 

[Bletchleyite]

On Board Supervisor! Southern rebranding will not be beaten!

To be fair that person isn't quite a guard, they're more an upgraded ticket inspector with no safety critical role.

 

[Sly Sloth]

To be fair that person isn't quite a guard, they're more an upgraded ticket inspector with no safety critical role.

True! As others move to DCO this will still be hard to eclipse

 

[Horizon22]

Train manager in a way makes sense on the intercity trains where typically there may be 3 or 4 members of staff on board who are managed and whose responsibility are the TMs.

Joe public don't care what they are called as long as the train runs (preferably on time)

Yes I can certainly see an additional advantage to intercity services because as you say, there is then one role who is in charge of the safety critical aspects and can be directed to by other on board colleagues.

Some people probably see "guard" as an antiquated term which is perhaps why Train Manager is becoming more prevalent. I think though that if you were to take a straw poll of the general public for "what is the on-board member of train staff called?" 'guard' would be the majority answer.

 

[Gemz91]

Know a few people who’d love having the word ‘manager’ added to their job title to give them that extra sense of entitlement and power.

 

[Train_manager]

Know a few people who’d love having the word ‘manager’ added to their job title to give them that extra sense of entitlement and power.

With no extra pay,??

As far as Joe Public is concerned, does "Train Manager" suggest that the staff member perhaps has a higher status or additional responsibilities than "Guard"?

According to GBrf it does because there the driver

 

[Krokodil]

I think though that if you were to take a straw poll of the general public for "what is the on-board member of train staff called?" 'guard' would be the majority answer.

I dunno, "ticket guy" or "train man" are quite commonly heard.

 

[43066]

Know a few people who’d love having the word ‘manager’ added to their job title to give them that extra sense of entitlement and power.

With no extra pay,??

You’ve heard of driver managers, right?

I jest. At least partially.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Conducter , in Welsh is "arweinydd" - my SW Wales roots point to chapel influence , as the term was often used for those leading services or choral singing etc.......

"Traffic Manager" in Welsh was "Rheolwr Trafnyddiad" (I think) - a much more direct translation ........

No doubt , I will be put right......

 

[LowLevel]

The most regular one I hear from the public is actually train manager nowadays. I am quite often asked if I'm the train manager and whilst that isn't my job title I say yes because it's easier in that I'm the person in charge of the train as far as the public are concerned and it's usually me they need to talk to.

I've been a Senior Conductor for years and it isn't a job title I am fond of. It means nothing at all to anybody. I usually use guard in day to day speech.

 

[skyhigh]

Out of all the job titles on the railway "Train Manager" has to be my least favourite by far. I dislike it because the "Train Manager" job title does not suit the job or describe the job and i think nobody would associate the word manager with a guards job. Also no ordinary passenger ever uses this term

I have to agree with @LowLevel here, I hear passengers using 'Train Manager' much more frequently than anything else. Conductor is probably second, to be honest I rarely hear Guard used.

 

[TBSchenker]

Even through all these name changes, the Rule Book still refers to the grade as 'Guard', which is what I call my colleagues who have been branded Conductors.

 

[RJ]

Another one was C2C (who had Guards on the twelve coach 357s until 2017) who used the "Train Captain" job title which is an even more ridiculous job title than "Train Manager" is. You also have Lumo with their ridiculous sounding "Customer Driver" and "Customer Experience Ambassador" job titles.

To be fair, on Lumo I’ve seen drivers
checking tickets on board!

 

[greatkingrat]

You’ve heard of driver managers, right?

I jest. At least partially.

What is the manager of a train manager called?