The steam train that could power the future

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

Good to see a former 'Thameslink locomotive' being put to use:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/videos/c863n7z07eyo

A train which is powered purely on hydrogen is now undergoing tests with those behind it hoping it could help move the industry away from fossil fuels.

The former Thameslink locomotive has been converted in Warwickshire and now only produces water as an emission.

The company behind the project hopes the train could be a cheaper alternative for railway lines which cannot be electrified.

Tests are being carried out on routes in Warwickshire, Worcestershire and the West Midlands ahead of potential future commercial uses.

 

[Steve Harris]

Good to see a former 'Thameslink locomotive' being put to use:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/videos/c863n7z07eyo

Typical modern journalism, contains false information, perhaps a job for BBC Verify to investigate !!

 

[Sun Chariot]

modern journalism, contains false information, perhaps a job for BBC Verify to investigate !!

Too right. The intro's banner: Unlike most diesels, this train emits only water.
 Most diesels?
So, by inference, BBC journo is telling us  some diesels  do emit water? What strange alchemy is this?
Has anyone told him that the water from his diesel car's exhaust, is merely pipe moisture...

 

[Magdalia]

I'm not an engineer but I do know the chemistry of combustion.

Complete combustion of hydrocarbons with oxygen produces carbon dioxide and water. Diesel fuel is mainly a mixture of hydrocarbons so all diesels emit both carbon dioxide and water.

Combustion of hydrogen with oxygen only produces water.

 

[Sun Chariot]

Complete combustion of hydrocarbons with oxygen produces carbon dioxide and water. Diesel fuel is a hydrocarbon so all diesels emit both carbon dioxide and water

Well, I've gone through my life completely oblivious to that. The things I've learned from this forum.

 

[Doomotron]

Typical modern journalism, contains false information, perhaps a job for BBC Verify to investigate !!

To be fair most people don't know what a 'multiple unit' is, or how they work. It's only a small subset of people who would actually notice and care about them getting wrong.

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

To be fair most people don't know what a 'multiple unit' is, or how they work. It's only a small subset of people who would actually notice and care about them getting wrong.

Agreed. Perhaps just say ‘train’ - most should understand this.

 

[simonmpoulton]

These 319's must be the most repurposed rolling stock in the country at this rate.

 

[gmaguire]

In the video on the linked page, the driver seems to say that the train has regenerative braking.

 

[norbitonflyer]

To be fair most people don't know what a 'multiple unit' is, or how they work. It's only a small subset of people who would actually notice and care about them getting wrong.

Since "locomotive" literally means "self propelled", any steam- or diesel-powered vehicle is a "locomotive engine". The term was originally used to distinguish from the earlier stationary or portable engines used for pumping, threshing etc. (A portable engine was one mounted on wheels but not driving them - such as early horse-drawn fire engines)

But on that definition an electric "locomotive" is not loco-motive, because the engine (power source) is not on board.

 

[Noddy]

In the video on the linked page, the driver seems to say that the train has regenerative braking.

All hydrogen powered vehicles (cars, trucks, trains etc) require batteries-the fuel cell never directly powers the electric motor(s) because put simply the fuel cell can’t cope with the peaks and troughs of power demand. The ‘energy’ goes something like this: fuel cell>batteries>motor. So you can also use regen braking from the motor to do something like this: fuel cell>batteries<>motor.

 

[JGurney]

Since "locomotive" literally means "self propelled", any steam- or diesel-powered vehicle is a "locomotive engine". The term was originally used to distinguish from the earlier stationary or portable engines used for pumping, threshing etc. (A portable engine was one mounted on wheels but not driving them - such as early horse-drawn fire engines)

But on that definition an electric "locomotive" is not loco-motive, because the engine (power source) is not on board.

And by that definition any single railcar, or any vehicle usually a component of a multiple unit but capable of movement under it's own power if separated from the rest of the MU, would also be a locomotive. In fact a diesel MU could be regarded as a locomotive in that sense.

 

[trainmania100]

In the video it looks like the first car is entirely out of use, which leads me to suggest it's the "engine" of the train propelling otherwise unpowered vehicles so it is a locomotive kinda

 

[Steve Harris]

To be fair most people don't know what a 'multiple unit' is, or how they work. It's only a small subset of people who would actually notice and care about them getting wrong.

Did I mention multiple unit ?? As someone else upthread said, just call it a train (because it's certainly not a locomotive).

Yes i might be one of that subset, but there are a lot of people who do notice things, normally at the last minute when they work out it affects them and it's to late to do anything about it !

In the video it looks like the first car is entirely out of use, which leads me to suggest it's the "engine" of the train propelling otherwise unpowered vehicles so it is a locomotive kinda

Was a Class 210 or the current heritage Hastings DEMU a locomotive?? Kinda No.

Btw, unless there is a driving cab in one end (Class 08/09/20)where the driver can see the track when going forwards and backwards it isn't a locomotive !

And by that definition any single railcar, or any vehicle usually a component of a multiple unit but capable of movement under it's own power if separated from the rest of the MU, would also be a locomotive. In fact a diesel MU could be regarded as a locomotive in that sense.

^This (Class 121 anyone).

 

[norbitonflyer]

Was a Class 210 or the current heritage Hastings DEMU a locomotive?? Kinda No.

What about the power cars in the Class 755s? In some ways a similar idea to the steam powered "autotrains", which could have a non-passenger "power car" in the middle.

 

[Doomotron]

Did I mention multiple unit ??

No. Neither did the article. They used locomotive, which is completely incorrect. I mentioned it being multiple unit because that is what it is.

 

[Steve Harris]

What about the power cars in the Class 755s? In some ways a similar idea to the steam powered "autotrains", which could have a non-passenger "power car" in the middle.

No. Because it doesn't have driving controls/cab.

 

[norbitonflyer]

I'm not an engineer but I do know the chemistry of combustion.

Complete combustion of hydrocarbons with oxygen produces carbon dioxide and water. Diesel fuel is mainly a mixture of hydrocarbons so all diesels emit both carbon dioxide and water.

Combustion of hydrogen with oxygen only produces water.

Well, I've gone through my life completely oblivious to that. The things I've learned from this forum.

In general, hydrocarbons*, as the name implies, are compounds of hydrogen and carbon, of the form H-(CH2)n-H .
n=1 would be methane (CH4),
n=8 would be octane C8H18 etc
you can consider n=0 as hydrogen (H2) to be the limiting case

Combustion with oxygen gives one molecule of CO2 and half a molecule of H2O for each CH2 group, plus another half a molecule of H2O for the two hydrgen atoms at each end

So (hydrogen) 2 H2 + O2 -> 2 H2O
(methane) CH4 + 3 O2 -> CO2 + 2H2O
(octane) C8H18 + 17 O2 -> 8 CO2 + 9 H2O

*not to be confused with carbohydrates which are compounds of carbon, hydrogen and oxygen, typically with -OH groups attached to some of the carbon atoms rather than -H

 

[43096]

No. Because it doesn't have driving controls/cab.

So on that basis, is this not a locomotive?

EMD GP60 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Sun Chariot]

So on that basis, is this not a locomotive?

EMD GP60 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"Booster" units typically have rudimentary controls, enabling them to be driven within depots and yards. They're known as hostler controls, located behind a bodyside access door.
On older units (such as EMD's E- and F- series Boosters) their hostler controls were inside the carbody; a bodyside porthole opened on a hinge, enabling the operator to look out.

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

In general, hydrocarbons*, as the name implies, are compounds of hydrogen and carbon, of the form H-(CH2)n-H .
n=1 would be methane (CH4),
n=8 would be octane C8H18 etc
you can consider n=0 as hydrogen (H2) to be the limiting case

Combustion with oxygen gives one molecule of CO2 and half a molecule of H2O for each CH2 group, plus another half a molecule of H2O for the two hydrgen atoms at each end

So (hydrogen) 2 H2 + O2 -> 2 H2O
(methane) CH4 + 3 O2 -> CO2 + 2H2O
(octane) C8H18 + 17 O2 -> 8 CO2 + 9 H2O

*not to be confused with carbohydrates which are compounds of carbon, hydrogen and oxygen, typically with -OH groups attached to some of the carbon atoms rather than -H

Also there are unsaturated and cyclic hydrocarbons.