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Track Basher

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I answer to the first question asked yes. If there is a Virgin only anytime single correct you could pay a differnce plus a tenner. I don't think there is in in this case. You are basically stuffed.

The second question you are along the right lines. The problem here is that you have breached you railcard conditions. If you travel without a valid railcard you must purchase a new ticket as if no ticket is held. You will not get any credit for the one purchased on the internet.
 
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Track Basher

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This evening's question.

I have purchased an Off Peak Return (not day) dated 25 August 2011. I have made my outward journey and have travelled back part way and broken my journey (this is allowed). What time and date is the latest I can recommence my return journey or arrive at my original origin which would still allow me to complete the journey on the same ticket without having to purchase another ticket?

You may assume the ticket I have purchased does not have a time restriction on the return leg as this could complicate the issue.
 

transportphoto

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The last date when you can start your journey is 24th September, but travel may continue into the earlyhours of the 25th with no further BOJs ?

Wrong I guess but I'd kill myself if I didn't say it and somebody else did and it was correct ;)
 

ainsworth74

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I think TP is on the right lines but if you recommenced your journey on the 24th but couldn't finish it you would be allowed to resume again (having broken overnight on the 24th to 25th) as long as you travelled before 12:00 and did not break your journey again.

(Points to TP if he's right on everything apart from this)
 

Track Basher

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I will reveal the answer later tonight but Ainsworth don't quite follow your answer could you just expand a little. Is that 12:00 on the 24th or 25th Sept? Are you saying you have to arrive by then or recommence by then?
 

ainsworth74

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Okay you recommence your journey on the 24th of September as this is the last day of validity. However you cannot actually complete your journey to your destination on the 24th for whatever reason so you are allowed to break your journey overnight and then as long as on the 25th you resume your journey before 12:00 and don't break your journey again your ticket remains valid.

Take this as an example. Your return is Edinburgh to The Cross you start out from EDB on the 24th but cannot reach KGX that day so you stop at York overnight. As long as you then resume from York before 12:00 on the 25th and do not break your journey again you do not require a new ticket.

Or at least I think so anyway :oops:
 

Track Basher

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The answer is this is actually a trick question. It is not defined at which point the return portion eventually expires. It is valid one month but not the time the validity expires.
 

LexyBoy

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The answer is this is actually a trick question. It is not defined at which point the return portion eventually expires. It is valid one month but not the time the validity expires.

I don't understand. The ticket is valid until the 24th, which means from 0000 on the 24th till 0230 on the 25th. You may commence your return journey any time until the end of this period. If you are travelling on this day and wish to break overnight you may do so, but must resume travel by 1200 on the 25th, and no further break of journey is allowed.


--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I answer to the first question asked yes. If there is a Virgin only anytime single correct you could pay a differnce plus a tenner. I don't think there is in in this case. You are basically stuffed.

There's no need for there to be a VT only fare, it can be excessed to the Any Permitted Anytime Single, but will still be restricted to Virgin. As there are few Virgin services to Northampton it would probably be cheaper to buy a new ticket though.

 
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Track Basher

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I don't understand. The ticket is valid until the 24th, which means from 0000 on the 24th till 0230 on the 25th. You may commence your return journey any time until the end of this period. If you are travelling on this day and wish to break overnight you may do so, but must resume travel by 1200 on the 25th, and no further break of journey is allowed.


--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


There's no need for there to be a VT only fare, it can be excessed to the Any Permitted Anytime Single, but will still be restricted to Virgin. As there are few Virgin services to Northampton it would probably be cheaper to buy a new ticket though.


The outward portion is clearly specified you can break you journey and recommence before midday the following day to your destination with no further break of journey but you may change trains. The return portion is less clear the ticket expires on the 24th but is it still valid as long start on the 24th and continue to you destination on the 25th or does it expire at midnight and you have to reach your destination by then. This is not specified.

For Off Peak Day Returns this is very clear you can use you return portion until 02:30 the following day as long as you commence before this time you can complete your journey.

On the second one you cannot excess a dedicated fare to an interavailable. You must purchase a new ticket.
 

LexyBoy

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The outward portion is clearly specified you can break you journey and recommence before midday the following day to your destination with no further break of journey but you may change trains. The return portion is less clear the ticket expires on the 24th but is it still valid as long start on the 24th and continue to you destination on the 25th or does it expire at midnight and you have to reach your destination by then. This is not specified.

I was incorrect on the first part, it's not permitted to break overnight on last day of validity of the return portion (edited in above post). The remainder is right though - the validity is until 0230 on the day after the last day of validity (25th in your example):

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/offpeak_conditions.html said:
Off-Peak and Super Off-Peak tickets are valid for travel on the date shown on your ticket and until 02:30 on the following day.

As per NRCoC point 11, you may continue your journey if the validity expires during travel (i.e. you're on a train at 0230 on the 25th).

On the second one you cannot excess a dedicated fare to an interavailable. You must purchase a new ticket.

Do you have a source for this? AFAIK an Advance can be excessed to any single fare. If that fare is interavailable, the excess remains TOC-specific, which would be explained when the excess is sold. The excess is only valid with the original ticket so this restriction could be checked by any staff.
 

Track Basher

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I was incorrect on the first part, it's not permitted to break overnight on last day of validity of the return portion (edited in above post). The remainder is right though - the validity is until 0230 on the day after the last day of validity (25th in your example):

I stand corrected. We are actually both wrong.

Break of journey
You may start, break and resume, or end your journey at any intermediate station along the route of travel on Off-Peak tickets unless the ticket restriction for the journey you are making does not allow it. If you intend to start, break and resume, or end your journey at any intermediate station, please call 08457 48 49 50 to check if it is available on your specific journey.

Where Break of Journey is available on your specific journey, if you wish to stop overnight or it is not possible to complete the journey by 02:30 on the day following the last day of validity, you may continue your journey the following morning. Travel must resume before 12:00, where the time restrictions that apply to the ticket should be observed and no further break of journey is allowed except to change trains.

NOTE: Cross London transfers will not be accepted by London Underground during this extension period.


As per NRCoC point 11, you may continue your journey if the validity expires during travel (i.e. you're on a train at 0230 on the 25th).



Do you have a source for this? AFAIK an Advance can be excessed to any single fare. If that fare is interavailable, the excess remains TOC-specific, which would be explained when the excess is sold. The excess is only valid with the original ticket so this restriction could be checked by any staff.

From National Rail website:

Changing the time or date of travel
Changes to time or date of travel must be arranged before departure of the first reserved train printed on the ticket, after which the ticket has no value and a new one must be purchased. You will need to present the ticket(s) and reservation(s) when you request a change.
Changes to tickets cannot be made on-board the train. If you board a train without a ticket and reservation for that service, a new ticket must be purchased. Depending on the Train Company you are travelling with, you may be liable to a Penalty Fare if you board the train with an invalid ticket.

The origin, destination and Train Company or route shown on the ticket(s) must remain the same.The difference between the price paid and cost of the next suitable fare for your journey is payable, plus a £10 administration fee per person, per single ticket for each change to a journey. If you change to a train on which a cheaper fare is available, the difference will not be refunded.
 
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