Tickets for rare track near Wolverhampton

[ABB125]

On Saturdays, there is a train (0543 Wolverhampton-Rugeley) which goes direct from Wolverhampton to Walsall. As far as I'm aware, this is the only scheduled train which takes the "Bescot avoiding curve" (and unfortunately there doesn't appear to be a working in the other direction). A bit later in the day, the 0713 Birmingham-Crewe goes via Bescot, then avoids Wolverhampton, first stop Penkridge (more rare track!). My question is this: can I go Wolverhampton-Walsall-Birmingham-Penkridge (avoiding WVH) on a Penkridge-Birmingham return ticket?

I've checked the routeing guide, and this says that the relevant routeing points are Wolverhampton and Birmingham. The permitted route is via Smethwick (map BI). So, would I be right in thinking that this ticket wouldn't cover going via Walsall on the first part of the journey, but would cover the direct Birmingham-Penkridge (because it's a direct train) even though it doesn't go via WVH?

If I'm correct, what is the cheapest alternative combination of tickets? A network Daytripper is no use, as it doesn't cover Penkridge, and I'd rather not have to spend £20 or more on a West Midlands Day Ranger.

Thanks

 

[Watershed]

On Saturdays, there is a train (0543 Wolverhampton-Rugeley) which goes direct from Wolverhampton to Walsall. As far as I'm aware, this is the only scheduled train which takes the "Bescot avoiding curve" (and unfortunately there doesn't appear to be a working in the other direction). A bit later in the day, the 0713 Birmingham-Crewe goes via Bescot, then avoids Wolverhampton, first stop Penkridge (more rare track!). My question is this: can I go Wolverhampton-Walsall-Birmingham-Penkridge (avoiding WVH) on a Penkridge-Birmingham return ticket?

I've checked the routeing guide, and this says that the relevant routeing points are Wolverhampton and Birmingham. The permitted route is via Smethwick (map BI). So, would I be right in thinking that this ticket wouldn't cover going via Walsall on the first part of the journey, but would cover the direct Birmingham-Penkridge (because it's a direct train) even though it doesn't go via WVH?

If I'm correct, what is the cheapest alternative combination of tickets? A network Daytripper is no use, as it doesn't cover Penkridge, and I'd rather not have to spend £20 or more on a West Midlands Day Ranger.

Thanks

You can't do that route on a Penkridge-Birmingham return.

But you can on a Stafford-Birmingham return, which is only a few pounds more, as map BV covers the outward journey and the 'direct trains' rule covers the return journey.

 

[ABB125]

You can't do that route on a Penkridge-Birmingham return.

But you can on a Stafford-Birmingham return, which is only a few pounds more, as map BV covers the outward journey and the 'direct trains' rule covers the return journey.

Thanks very much.

 

[pelli]

I can, by asking for a change at Penkridge, get trainscanbecheaper.info to offer 0713 Birmingham - Penkridge followed by 0931 Penkridge - Stafford, so the route (Birmingham New Street - Aston - Bescot Stadium - Penkridge - Stafford) ought to be valid not just by the direct train rule. Railmiles says Birmingham New Street - Stafford is 28mi15ch, and Realtimetrains says the 0713 takes 30mi75ch between the two, so it looks like it's also valid by being within 3 miles of the shortest route.

If the route had been valid only by the direct train rule, then I think in theory you'd need to do an extra sanity check about breaking your journey (i.e. disembarking at Penkridge when holding a Birmingham to Stafford ticket), as it is sometimes barred in order to prevent passengers buying a cheap ticket between two stations with a circuitous direct train between them in order to go much farther afield (see yorkie's post here). (But obviously Penkridge is not unreasonable - indeed it does lie on another permitted route - and you would also have been able to argue that train routeing details are not officially advertised and passengers should not have to check unofficial sources to ensure their trains don't go on off-route detours in between advertised station stops...)

 

[sonic2009]

Where is your starting point for the day?

 

[ABB125]

Where is your starting point for the day?

It would probably be Wolverhampton

 

[sonic2009]

I suspect there is some historical permitted routes via Walsall, for when there was a regular shuttle between Wolverhampton and Walsall, although technically not permitted I cannot suspect that anyone would disagree if checked with using a Penkridge - Witton CDR? As how is the joe public supposed to know which way a train goes?

 

[Watershed]

I suspect there is some historical permitted routes via Walsall, for when there was a regular shuttle between Wolverhampton and Walsall, although technically not permitted I cannot suspect that anyone would disagree if checked with using a Penkridge - Witton CDR? As how is the joe public supposed to know which way a train goes?

A Penkridge-Witton ticket would be valid for the OP's outward journey, as the journey would be within 3 miles of the shortest route. However it wouldn't be valid for the OP's return journey as it wouldn't be within 3 miles of the shortest route.

 

[Kite159]

A Penkridge-Witton ticket would be valid for the OP's outward journey, as the journey would be within 3 miles of the shortest route. However it wouldn't be valid for the OP's return journey as it wouldn't be within 3 miles of the shortest route.

Although what guard will pick up on it if they use it on that Birmingham - Crewe service which bypasses Wolverhampton as to a normal passenger the train calls at Penkridge

 

[pelli]

A Penkridge-Witton ticket would be valid for the OP's outward journey, as the journey would be within 3 miles of the shortest route. However it wouldn't be valid for the OP's return journey as it wouldn't be within 3 miles of the shortest route.

On a straight search Witton - Penkridge, National Rail Enquiries offers 0645 Witton - Birmingham New Street then 0713 Birmingham New Street - Penkridge, which would mean that the ticket is valid on the 0713 (either because it is actually valid, or because the journey planner says so), but I'm not expert enough to tell why.

A network Daytripper is no use, as it doesn't cover Penkridge

You could consider buying the n-Network Daytripper (£6.90) and a single or return to Penkridge from a suitable last station of validity, making use of the National Rail Conditions of Travel paragraph 14.2 that allows combining a "daily Zonal Ticket or another area based Ticket such as a [...] ranger or rover" with another ticket without needing the train to stop at the changeover station.

As for what the suitable last station is, you can argue that the official network maps of London Northwestern Railway (who run the 0713), West Midlands Railway (who are the same company but have a more detailed map of the area), and Transport for West Midlands (who administer the n-Network ticket?) all show that a train from Birmingham to Penkridge must pass through Wolverhampton, so you only need a Wolverhampton to Penkridge ticket (single £4.80, return £6.00), or you do things "properly" and get a Bescot Stadium to Penkridge ticket (single £8.80, return £10.00).

This is more expensive than the Penkridge to Witton return (£10.00), especially if you have a railcard as it seems like the Daytripper can't be discounted, but might be worthwhile if you plan to return from Penkridge to Wolverhampton by train and/or travel more in the area for the rest of the day.

Beware that I'm not an expert on fares, so you should double-check with someone who is.

 

[ABB125]

You could consider buying the n-Network Daytripper (£6.90) and a single or return to Penkridge from a suitable last station of validity, making use of the National Rail Conditions of Travel paragraph 14.2 that allows combining a "daily Zonal Ticket or another area based Ticket such as a [...] ranger or rover" with another ticket without needing the train to stop at the changeover station.

Good idea, I can't believe I missed that! I'll investigate more if and when I decide I want to unleash my inner Branch Line Society...