TPE Liverpool - Cleethorpes Timetable 2022

[Peter A]

TPE have at some point in the past couple days posted the proposed timetable for the TPE South route on their May 2022 ECML consultation page.

This seems an interesting move when the consultation closes tomorrow - however it mentions on said page that they "also expect to issue a consultation on service changes required as part of the Manchester Rail Task Force process" so perhaps this upload is in preparation of that.

I've attached the timetable to this post.

 

[JonathanH]

Nothing particularly surprising with this - it basically combines the current Liverpool Lime Street - Warrington Central - Manchester Airport service with the existing Cleethorpes service on the opposite side of the hour to the Liverpool Lime Street to Nottingham service. This one has a few extra stops - eg Irlam and Urmston.

Not quite sure how it interacts with the xx15 Manchester Piccadilly to Euston service which it presumably crosses at Slade Lane Junction.

 

[Killingworth]

TPE have at some point in the past couple days posted the proposed timetable for the TPE South route on their May 2022 ECML consultation page.

This seems an interesting move when the consultation closes tomorrow - however it mentions on said page that they "also expect to issue a consultation on service changes required as part of the Manchester Rail Task Force process" so perhaps this upload is in preparation of that.

I've attached the timetable to this post.

Omitting all the hourly services from Dore & Totley at 5, 6, 7 and 8.15 that used to go to the Airport and return hourly services back in the evenings will not be a welcome move for South-West Sheffield! That said commuters for Manchester are currently running at about 20% of pre-Covid and are proving very slow to return.

However, stops are in the 2022 timetables for Saturdays and Sundays so looks like the omissions for Monday-Friday are a clerical error. Edit, confirmed, they are!

 

[Greybeard33]

Nothing particularly surprising with this - it basically combines the current Liverpool Lime Street - Warrington Central - Manchester Airport service with the existing Cleethorpes service on the opposite side of the hour to the Liverpool Lime Street to Nottingham service. This one has a few extra stops - eg Irlam and Urmston.

Not quite sure how it interacts with the xx15 Manchester Piccadilly to Euston service which it presumably crosses at Slade Lane Junction.

The extension of the Cleethorpes service to Liverpool forms part of the latest Manchester Recovery Task Force proposals, Option B+.

https://democracy.transportforthenorth.com/documents/s2800/Manchester%20Recovery%20Taskforce%20RNC.pdf

But the MRTF proposals are for the December 2022, not May 2022, timetable change.

 

[Dspatula]

Warrington West passengers aren't going to be happy.
Edit, also forces a re-timing of the Manchester Airport to Blackpool North.

 

[Llandudno]

Fantastic news for users of Irlam and Urmston, a real game changer for them!

Later last trains Sheffield-Liverpool as well!

Pretty certain that this will generate far more passengers than Manchester Airport for TPE!

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Fantastic news for users of Irlam and Urmston, a real game changer for them!

Later last trains Sheffield-Liverpool as well!

Pretty certain that this will generate far more passengers than Manchester Airport for TPE!

Yep it will. Trains usually significantly lower in usage once it leaves Piccadilly to the airport at least on the Cleethorpes service

 

[Statto]

Fantastic news for users of Irlam and Urmston, a real game changer for them!

Later last trains Sheffield-Liverpool as well!

Pretty certain that this will generate far more passengers than Manchester Airport for TPE!

Also earlier trains Sheffield-Liverpool, 2 TPE that arrives in Liverpool before the first EMR does, & one departure before the first EMR from Liverpool.

 

[Greybeard33]

Not quite sure how it interacts with the xx15 Manchester Piccadilly to Euston service which it presumably crosses at Slade Lane Junction.

Warrington West passengers aren't going to be happy.
Edit, also forces a re-timing of the Manchester Airport to Blackpool North.

Clearly the MRTF proposals involve a significant timetable recast affecting multiple services. Which is why I doubt that this TPE timetable can be implemented before December 2022.

In the TfN meeting on 27 July, Tim Wood, acting CEO, said that TfN is in discussion with the Task Force and DfT about improving cross Warrington connections. I guess that might mean TPE and/or EMR making an additional stop at Warrington West.

 

[js1000]

Fantastic news for users of Irlam and Urmston, a real game changer for them!

Later last trains Sheffield-Liverpool as well!

Pretty certain that this will generate far more passengers than Manchester Airport for TPE!

A lot of services beyond Piccadilly to/from Manchester Airport carry thin air. I'm glad train operating companies and TftN have finally appreciated this - although they should have realised this in 2017 prior to the May 2018 timetable debacle.

 

[Gareth]

So, is this replacing the Northern Lime Street to Manchester Airport service?

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

Awesome, I love Liverpool, a much better destination, also Oxford Road is a nice stop in Manchester, the old service went to East Didsbury which wasn't of interest to many travellers.

 

[Watershed]

So, is this replacing the Northern Lime Street to Manchester Airport service?

Yes, the semifast via Warrington.

It helps that the paths match up quite well - as you might expect, given that the EMR service is about half an hour apart from the TPE service on the Hope Valley, and about half an hour apart from the Northern service on the CLC.

 

[Llandudno]

Could be a boost to tourism in Cleethorpes….!

 

[johnnychips]

Although I’ll be sad to lose my direct link to the airport, I think this is a better idea. However:

- does that mean Liverpool now has no direct link to the airport
- will it have any implications on pathing from 13/14 at Piccadilly as the trains will now be going on to/coming from Stockport rather than Heald Green

 

[Ianno87]

Liverpool will still have a slower direct Airport service by way of the Liverpool-Chat Moss-Airport-Crewe stopper.

 

[wacca78]

Although I’ll be sad to lose my direct link to the airport, I think this is a better idea. However:

- does that mean Liverpool now has no direct link to the airport
- will it have any implications on pathing from 13/14 at Piccadilly as the trains will now be going on to/coming from Stockport rather than Heald Green

I think the Crewe all stopping service will still exist. It’ll probably be quicker to go on a fast train via Picc and change but the option is there for those who don’t want to change.

 

[Greybeard33]

I think the Crewe all stopping service will still exist. It’ll probably be quicker to go on a fast train via Picc and change but the option is there for those who don’t want to change.

Under the Manchester Recovery Task Force Option B+ proposal, the Liverpool - Chat Moss - Airport stopper will terminate at the Airport. There will be a separate hourly Piccadilly - Airport - Crewe service.

 

[childwallblues]

The Liverpool-Manchester Airport service via Warrington Central is a busy service as far as Manchester Piccadilly. Mainly foreign tourists from thereon.
Liverpool to Cleethorpes will be an excellent route opening up the possibility of day trips to the seaside from Liverpool.

 

[Ianno87]

.
Liverpool to Cleethorpes will be an excellent route opening up the possibility of day trips to the seaside from Liverpool.

Well, if you ignore that plenty of day trips to the seaside are already possible on direct trains from Liverpool to much closer places (Southport, Blackpool, etc).

I love the idea of "opening up", as if changing at Manchester Piccadilly today is some sort of Berlin Wall to passenger demand.

 

[childwallblues]

Well, if you ignore that plenty of day trips to the seaside are already possible on direct trains from Liverpool to much closer places (Southport, Blackpool, etc).

I love thPe idea of "opening up", as if changing at Manchester Piccadilly today is some sort of Berlin Wall to passenger demand.

Well, if you ignore that plenty of day trips to the seaside are already possible on direct trains from Liverpool to much closer places (Southport, Blackpool, etc).

I love the idea of "opening up", as if changing at Manchester Piccadilly today is some sort of Berlin Wall to passenger demand.

Piccadilly P13/14 is like a Berlin Wall when you have to wait on the platforms in high winds and driving rain.
Seriously though my comment on day trips to places like Cleethorpes is valid though more likely to be taken by folk with senior railcards. Currently the journey means a change from P13/14 at Piccadilly to a platform in the train shed.

 

[lyndhurst25]

The Liverpool-Manchester Airport service via Warrington Central is a busy service as far as Manchester Piccadilly. Mainly foreign tourists from thereon.
Liverpool to Cleethorpes will be an excellent route opening up the possibility of day trips to the seaside from Liverpool.

Using walk up fares, that would be a £60.10 per person day trip! I don’t know if there ever were any cheaper day return fares from Liverpool to Cleethorpes, but if there were then TPE would have abolished them, just like they did for the traditional South Yorkshire to Cleethorpes market in an attempt at price gouging. The result being that many of those day-trippers now travel by car instead.

 

[Llandudno]

Piccadilly P13/14 is like a Berlin Wall when you have to wait on the platforms in high winds and driving rain.
Seriously though my comment on day trips to places like Cleethorpes is valid though more likely to be taken by folk with senior railcards. Currently the journey means a change from P13/14 at Piccadilly to a platform in the train shed.

I suspect most of the flow will be in the opposite direction, more people from Cleethorpes/Grimsby and Doncaster wishing to visit Liverpool!

 

[CJ]

Under the Manchester Recovery Task Force Option B+ proposal, the Liverpool - Chat Moss - Airport stopper will terminate at the Airport. There will be a separate hourly Piccadilly - Airport - Crewe service.

If true, I wonder if this potential service will be direct from Manchester Piccadilly - Airport (omitting the local stops) if a Piccadilly-Airport-Crewe separate service will exist?

 

[Bertie the bus]

Seriously though my comment on day trips to places like Cleethorpes is valid though more likely to be taken by folk with senior railcards. Currently the journey means a change from P13/14 at Piccadilly to a platform in the train shed.

Why would pensioners want to sit on a train for 4 hours to travel to the opposite coast when they can sit on a train for 1/2 hour or so and visit the seaside on their doorstep?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

So, is this replacing the Northern Lime Street to Manchester Airport service?

The DMU semi-fast via Warrington Central, yes.
The EMU stopper via Newton le Willows will still run (but not run on to Crewe, as I understand it).

 

[Djgr]

Well, if you ignore that plenty of day trips to the seaside are already possible on direct trains from Liverpool to much closer places (Southport, Blackpool, etc).

I love the idea of "opening up", as if changing at Manchester Piccadilly today is some sort of Berlin Wall to passenger demand.

New Brighton, West Kirby, Hoylake, Meols, Wallasey, Blundellsands, Formby, Ainsdale, Southport. Liverpool to Cleethorpes day trips to see the sea? No way

 

[Greybeard33]

If true, I wonder if this potential service will be direct from Manchester Piccadilly - Airport (omitting the local stops) if a Piccadilly-Airport-Crewe separate service will exist?

AFAIK the stopping patterns are not yet in the public domain. The document I linked in post #4 only gives the end destinations. But I expect both the Liverpool - Airport via Chat Moss and the Piccadilly - Crewe will call at all stations between Piccadilly and the Airport. This will give all the intermediate stations a 2tph service, without the need for the current messy skip-stop calls by the longer distance Airport services.

 

[Kite159]

The Cleethorpes - Manchester trains have poor timekeeping already so a great idea to import the delays into getting a path via Castlefield and to delay the stopper from Oxford Road...

And like with the EMR services there will be delays on platform 14 when everybody alights before more passengers board

 

[Meridian richard]

The Cleethorpes - Manchester trains have poor timekeeping already so a great idea to import the delays into getting a path via Castlefield and to delay the stopper from Oxford Road...

And like with the EMR services there will be delays on platform 14 when everybody alights before more passengers board

Punctuality on the Hope Valley has been better than ever since the Airport was cut to Piccadilly.

The Hope Valley only works when trains run to their schedule; as mentioned this will simply cause delays and have knock on effects all round !

Just as we thought progress was being made for Sheffield to Manchester commuters