TPE Nova 3 (Class 68 + Mk5s) updates and withdrawal from service

[nedchester]

14 May 2020

68033

1E23 06:30 Manchester Victoria Scarborough

1F62 10:34 Scarborough Liverpool Lime Street
1E39 13:54 Liverpool Lime Street Scarborough
1F78 18:34 Scarborough Manchester Victoria
1E53 21:15 Manchester Victoria Scarborough
68022
1F54 06:34 Scarborough Liverpool Lime Street
1E31 09:54 Liverpool Lime Street Scarborough
1F70 14:34 Scarborough Liverpool Lime Street
1E47 17:54 Liverpool Lime Street Scarborough
1P96 21:34 Scarborough Manchester Piccadilly

 

[Kieran1990]

With Scarborough becoming a shuttle
from York next week- will the 68 Mk5s be used or will it a couple of 185’s running back and forth?

 

[HST43257]

With Scarborough becoming a shuttle
from York next week- will the 68 Mk5s be used or will it a couple of 185’s running back and forth?

RTT paths them as 68s which I’ve never seen before. I reckon they’ll be trying to use as many 68s as possible but I don’t know if they will start/continue on the Middlesbrough line.

 

[43 302]

14 May 2020

68033

1E23 06:30 Manchester Victoria Scarborough

1F62 10:34 Scarborough Liverpool Lime Street
1E39 13:54 Liverpool Lime Street Scarborough
1F78 18:34 Scarborough Manchester Victoria
1E53 21:15 Manchester Victoria Scarborough
68022
1F54 06:34 Scarborough Liverpool Lime Street
1E31 09:54 Liverpool Lime Street Scarborough
1F70 14:34 Scarborough Liverpool Lime Street
1E47 17:54 Liverpool Lime Street Scarborough
1P96 21:34 Scarborough Manchester Piccadilly

Thanks, is that 033s first ever passenger working then?

 

[nedchester]

Thanks, is that 033s first ever passenger working then?

It's worked before but not on the TPE trains.

 

[marsker]

RTT paths them as 68s which I’ve never seen before. I reckon they’ll be trying to use as many 68s as possible but I don’t know if they will start/continue on the Middlesbrough line.

Yesterday, the timing paths on RTT for Sunday 24 May showed the Redcar services as as if Nova 3 operated (Diesel loco trailing 160 tonnes), while the weekdays showed them as "Diesel multiple unit". However tonight all TPE services have vanished from RTT at York for 24 May. Of course, the timing load shown on RTT may or may not coincide with what is actually in use, and I suspect that a 185 and Nova 3 are not all that different for timing purposes.

 

[CW2]

From (online / railcam) observations this week, the current diagrams appear to be:
A.
1F48 05:54 ManVic - Liv 06:34
1E25 06:54 Liv - Scar 09:45
1T60 09:57 Scar - York 10:46
1T29 11:00 York - Scar 11:51
1T66 12:34 Scar - York 13:24
1T35 14:00 York - Scar 14:51
1F72 15:34 Scar - Liv 18:33
1E51 19:54 Liv - Scar 22:51
(Note extended layover at Liverpool off 1F72 - set does NOT work 18:54 departure, see below).

B.
1F56 07:34 Scar - ManVic 09:51
Standby at Man Vic
1E43 16:30 ManVic - Scar 18:51
1P92 19:34 Scar - ManApt 22:22

Notes:
ECS moves to / from stabling and servicing locations omitted for clarity.
Class 185 does York - Scar shuttles, starting 1T21 York 07:02, finishing - 1P96 21:34 Scar - ManApt.
1F54 06:34 Scar - Liv 09:32 DMU stands by at Liv then works 1P39 18:54 Liv - York.

So only two TPE class 68s active per day at the moment. There have been several movements of 3 or 4 locos York - Manchester - Crewe and v.v. in the past week, exchanging locos for servicing I assume.

 

[CW2]

The Sunday TPE service pattern is quite different. There is a 2-hourly Scarborough - Liverpool through the day. That needs 4 diagrams, which - today at least - appear to be two 68s and two 185s.

Today (SUNDAY)'s 68 diagrams are:
A.
1F54 08:52 Vic - Liv 09:34
1E31 09:55 Liv - Scar 12:51
1F70 14:34 Scar - Liv 17:34
1E47 17:52 Liv - Scar 20:51
B.
1F58 08:34 Scar - Liv 11:34
1E35 11:52 Liv - Scar 14:51
1F74 16:34 Scar - Liv 19:34
1E51 19:52 Liv - Man Vic 20:27

Note: 1P96 21:34 Scarborough - Manchester Airport could be worked by diagram A, but this would throw off the set balances unless balanced by a corresponding eastbound overnight service.

 

[43 302]

6/7 will see an increase in the Nova 3 diagrams.

68xxx + TPxx
5F54 0615 SF - SCA 0620
1F54 0634 SCA - LIV 0932
1E35 1154 LIV - SCA 1451
1F72 1534 SCA - LIV 1833
1E51 1954 LIV - SCA 2249
5E51 2305 SCA - SF 2310

68xxx + TPxx
5F56 0715 SF - SCA 0720
1F56 0734 SCA - MCV 0951
5H56 1001 MCV - MA 1021
5E43 1514 MA - MCV 1619
1E43 1630 MCV - SCA 1851
1P92 1934 SCA - MIA 2222
5H90 2243 MIA - MA 2359

68xxx + TPxx
5F48 0440 MA - MCV 0532
1F48 0554 MCV - LIV 0634
1E25 0654 LIV - SCA 0945
1T60 0957 SCA - YRK 1046
1T29 1100 YRK - SCA 1151
1F66 1234 SCA - LIV 1603
1E45 1654 LIV - SCA 1951
5E45 2005 SCA - SF 2010

SF Scarborough TMD
SCA Scarborough
YRK York
MCV Manchester Victoria
MIA Manchester Airport
LIV Liverpool Lime Street
MA Longsight

 

[CW2]

Note also that the (newly introduced) 1F66 12:34 Scarborough - Liverpool has a long dwell at York, and drops into the path (and stopping pattern) of the subsequent Newcastle - Liverpool service, which is instead cut back to terminate at York.
So no Garforth, Stalybridge or Lea Green stops on 1F66, but Dewsbury and Newton-le-Willows instead.
(No Garforth move possible off the 11:54 ex Liverpool).

 

[317 forever]

It seems that, even though some Scarborough journeys are merely shuttles to/from York, they are still not all Nova yet, some presumably remaining 185 operated for now.

 

[J-P_L]

3 diagrams per day are Nova 3 from tomorrow with double 185s on the other services, see post 639 above for the diagrams.

 

[Jamesrob637]

3 diagrams per day are Nova 3 from tomorrow with double 185s on the other services, see post 639 above for the diagrams.

That's actually only one fewer diagram than pre-COVID-19 isn't it?

 

[CW2]

That's actually only one fewer diagram than pre-COVID-19 isn't it?

By now there should have been 6 diagrams Scarborough - Liverpool + 1 diagram Redcar - Manchester Airport.
They were all pretty much full day diagrams.
The current 2 - 3 diagrams feature one diagram that rests at Longsight most of the day, and some degree of York - Scarborough shuttles, rather than through running to / from Liverpool.
So the actual diagram content is significantly less than pre-Covid, and also much less than it was intended to be by this date.

 

[CW2]

The Sunday TPE service pattern is quite different. There is a 2-hourly Scarborough - Liverpool through the day. That needs 4 diagrams, which - today at least - appear to be two 68s and two 185s.

Today (SUNDAY)'s 68 diagrams are:
A.
1F54 08:52 Vic - Liv 09:34
1E31 09:55 Liv - Scar 12:51
1F70 14:34 Scar - Liv 17:34
1E47 17:52 Liv - Scar 20:51
B.
1F58 08:34 Scar - Liv 11:34
1E35 11:52 Liv - Scar 14:51
1F74 16:34 Scar - Liv 19:34
1E51 19:52 Liv - Man Vic 20:27

Note: 1P96 21:34 Scarborough - Manchester Airport could be worked by diagram A, but this would throw off the set balances unless balanced by a corresponding eastbound overnight service.

From Sunday 12/07/20 the Sunday service pattern is further amended, with a reduced number of through Liverpool - Scarborough services. If anybody is out and about tomorrow, please keep an eye open and post which services are loco-hauled. Check the timings before you travel! Thanks.

 

[Ryry]

Hopefully now more restrictions are lifted nova 3s can continue to be trained and used on the redcar services

 

[BoroAndy]

As most businesses and people movement is now returning to normal, coupled with social distancing on trains, you would think we would be back to the full timetable by now. Or is it due to "staff shortages"?

 

[J-P_L]

Appears to be 2 68/MK5 diagrams with the uplift on Sundays from today, there is one other diagram which is 2x Class 185 all day (apart from 1T27 10:00 YRK-SCA which couples at Scarborough).

68/MK5 SUNDAY DIAGRAMS (12/07)

68034 + TP11
5F60 09:10 ScarbTMD-SCA
1T60 09:32 SCA-YRK
1T29 11:00 YRK-SCA
1F66 12:34 SCA-LIV
1E51 19:54 LIV-SCA
5E51 23:05 SCA-ScarbTMD


68031 + TP09
5M05 08:15 LngstCS-MCV
9M05 09:22 MCV-LIV
1E35 11:52 LIV-SCA
1T72 15:34 SCA-YRK
1T43 18:00 YRK-SCA
1P92 19:34 SCA-MIA
5H90 22:32 MIA-LngstCS

KEY

LIV: Liverpool Lime Street
LngstCS: Longsight Depot
MCV: Manchester Victoria
MIA: Manchester Airport
SCA: Scarborough
ScarTMD: Scarborough Depot
YRK: York

Update: Failure of 68031/TP09 at Liverpool. 1E35 cancelled between LIV and YRK, set ran ECS to Longsight as 5H35. 185102 detached from 1P73 at York to work remainder of diagram.

 

[CW2]

[Deleted]

 

[CW2]

Appears to be 2 68/MK5 diagrams with the uplift on Sundays from today, there is one other diagram which is 2x Class 185 all day (apart from 1T27 10:00 YRK-SCA which couples at Scarborough).

68/MK5 SUNDAY DIAGRAMS (12/07)

68034 + TP11
5F60 09:10 ScarbTMD-SCA
1T60 09:32 SCA-YRK
1T29 11:00 YRK-SCA
1F66 12:34 SCA-LIV
1E51 19:54 LIV-SCA
5E51 23:05 SCA-ScarbTMD


68031 + TP09
5M05 08:15 LngstCS-MCV
9M05 09:22 MCV-LIV
1E35 11:52 LIV-SCA
1T72 15:34 SCA-YRK
1T43 18:00 YRK-SCA
1P92 19:34 SCA-MIA
5H90 22:32 MIA-LngstCS

KEY

LIV: Liverpool Lime Street
LngstCS: Longsight Depot
MCV: Manchester Victoria
MIA: Manchester Airport
SCA: Scarborough
ScarTMD: Scarborough Depot
YRK: York

Update: Failure of 68031/TP09 at Liverpool. 1E35 cancelled between LIV and YRK, set ran ECS to Longsight as 5H35. 185102 detached from 1P73 at York to work remainder of diagram.

For reference, the class 185 diagram appears to be:
From a combination of reverse-engineering of the timetables, and observation of Rail-Cam, I believe the revised Liverpool – Scarborough TPE Sunday diagrams are as follows:

Class 185

York 10:00 1T27

Scarborough 10:53 11:32 1T64

York 12:22 13:00 1T33

Scarborough 13:51 14:32 1T70

York 15:22 16:00 1T39

Scarborough 16:51 17:32 1T76

York 18:22 20:00 1T47

Scarborough 20:51 21:34 1P96

Manc Airport 00:20 00:38 1P03 (Mon)

York 02:37 (Mon)



The timetable downloadable from the TPE website shows an 08:05 Manchester Victoria to Scarborough service. In fact this terminates at York and connects there into the 10:00 York – Scarborough (class 185).

Compared to the previous Sunday timetable, this is quite a significant change in service operation. Previously there was a 2-hourly service Liverpool to Scarborough, using 4 diagrams, and nothing to / from Redcar. Now Redcar gets an hourly service from Manchester, and Scarborough is reduced to a shuttle from York through most of the day. Overall it’s probably an increase in the Trans Pennine services, but Scarborough suffers as a result – and class 68 usage is much reduced.

Note also the long layovers at Liverpool Lime Street for the two class 68 diagrams, 09:59 - 11:52 and 15:58 - 19:52.

 

[Unstoppable]

Can I consult someone's knowledge. I have scrolled through the thread and can't seem to find an answer. On a Saturday what is the 11:52 Liverpool - Scarborough likely to be. Can I expect a loco hauled?

TIA

 

[CW2]

Can I consult someone's knowledge. I have scrolled through the thread and can't seem to find an answer. On a Saturday what is the 11:52 Liverpool - Scarborough likely to be. Can I expect a loco hauled?

TIA

Yes, should be hauled. Set off the 06:34 Scarboro - Liv which sits in the platform at Lime Street for a couple of hours (so you'll be able to see straight away if it's hauled or not). Good luck!

 

[Unstoppable]

Yes, should be hauled. Set off the 06:34 Scarboro - Liv which sits in the platform at Lime Street for a couple of hours (so you'll be able to see straight away if it's hauled or not). Good luck!

Much appreciated. Thank you!

 

[43 302]

Can anyone recommend a rover or ranger for TPE 68s? The best I can seem to find is teh North of England 4 in 8 but it doesnt cover York or Scarborough. Cheers.

 

[CHAPS2034]

Can anyone recommend a rover or ranger for TPE 68s? The best I can seem to find is teh North of England 4 in 8 but it doesnt cover York or Scarborough. Cheers.

This one is TPE only; does include York but not Scarborough but goes across to LPL too

GB RAIL ROVER GUIDE - North of England City Experience

How to find rail rover and ranger tickets on the national rail network. Rover and ranger tickets are cheap tickets for rail travel

www.railrover.org

or this one where you could ride the 68s from Huddersfield to Scarborough and points in between. This also covers lots of other places and TOCs as well

GB RAIL ROVER GUIDE - North East Rover

How to find rail rover and ranger tickets on the national rail network. Rover and ranger tickets are cheap tickets for rail travel

www.railrover.org

Alternatively there are a couple of day rangers you can use on the TPE 68s but they are only on the W Side of the Pennines, so Liverpool - Manchester only with the 68s. Not sure how reliable the 68 services are on this sector nowadays. Pre-covid they had a habit of binning the Manchester- Liverpool - Manchester sectors if there was a problem.

Both cover a wide area and a number of TOCs

GB RAIL ROVER GUIDE - Cheshire Day Ranger

How to find rail rover and ranger tickets on the national rail network. Rover and ranger tickets are cheap tickets for rail travel

www.railrover.org

GB RAIL ROVER GUIDE - Lancashire Day Ranger

How to find rail rover and ranger tickets on the national rail network. Rover and ranger tickets are cheap tickets for rail travel

www.railrover.org

HTH

 

[_toommm_]

This one is TPE only; does include York but not Scarborough but goes across to LPL too

GB RAIL ROVER GUIDE - North of England City Experience

How to find rail rover and ranger tickets on the national rail network. Rover and ranger tickets are cheap tickets for rail travel

www.railrover.org

or this one where you could ride the 68s from Huddersfield to Scarborough and points in between. This also covers lots of other places and TOCs as well

GB RAIL ROVER GUIDE - North East Rover

How to find rail rover and ranger tickets on the national rail network. Rover and ranger tickets are cheap tickets for rail travel

www.railrover.org

Alternatively there are a couple of day rangers you can use on the TPE 68s but they are only on the W Side of the Pennines, so Liverpool - Manchester only with the 68s. Not sure how reliable the 68 services are on this sector nowadays. Pre-covid they had a habit of binning the Manchester- Liverpool - Manchester sectors if there was a problem.

Both cover a wide area and a number of TOCs

GB RAIL ROVER GUIDE - Cheshire Day Ranger

How to find rail rover and ranger tickets on the national rail network. Rover and ranger tickets are cheap tickets for rail travel

www.railrover.org

GB RAIL ROVER GUIDE - Lancashire Day Ranger

How to find rail rover and ranger tickets on the national rail network. Rover and ranger tickets are cheap tickets for rail travel

www.railrover.org

HTH

Or the South Pennines Day Ranger for Leeds to Manchester Piccadilly/Victoria:

GB RAIL ROVER GUIDE - South Pennines Day Ranger

How to find rail rover and ranger tickets on the national rail network. Rover and ranger tickets are cheap tickets for rail travel

www.railrover.org

 

[NoMorePacers]

Can anyone recommend a rover or ranger for TPE 68s? The best I can seem to find is teh North of England 4 in 8 but it doesnt cover York or Scarborough. Cheers.

You can also get the East Yorkshire Round Robin (although that only covers York to Scarborough) and the West Yorkshire Day Saver (although that only covers Huddersfield to Garforth - cheap as chips though).

GB RAIL ROVER GUIDE - East Yorkshire Round Robin

How to find rail rover and ranger tickets on the national rail network. Rover and ranger tickets are cheap tickets for rail travel

www.railrover.org

GB RAIL ROVER GUIDE - West Yorkshire DaySaver Train

How to find rail rover and ranger tickets on the national rail network. Rover and ranger tickets are cheap tickets for rail travel

www.railrover.org

 

[43 302]

Thanks for the detailed replies all. I think I'll go for the north of england city experience, thanks

 

[43 302]

68034 getting ripped for 028 on Friday, get your miles in now.

 

[Dodrzet]

Locomotives on Scarborough service today:

1F56 07:34 SCA - MCV DRS livery (34?) 68 propelling
1F66 12:34 SCA - LIV 68028 Lord President
1E35 11:54 LIV - SCA 68032 Destroyer

Well, you have to do something while furloughed...