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Train drivers shift patterens on a 7 day working week

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scotland1977

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Hi is there any train drivers on this forum who work a 35 or 36hr week with the Sunday's included in their normal working week and if so could you let me know what the shift patteren is

Many thanks.
 
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Andy-mc

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is there any particular company your interested in knowing? I only ask as companies and individual depots can vary a lot
 

scotland1977

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is there any particular company your interested in knowing? I only ask as companies and individual depots can vary a lot

Hi bud no not any particular company just really would like to know which rota the TOC'S use for a seven day 36hr working week for train driver.
I know some already do this just wondering if there is anybody on here with information on the rota they currently use.
 

ComUtoR

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Early shift (book on before 1200) one week, late shift (book on after 1200) the next.

3 Rest days per week. No discernible pattern, just a guaranteed 3 days off per week.
 

scotland1977

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Early shift (book on before 1200) one week, late shift (book on after 1200) the next.

3 Rest days per week. No discernible pattern, just a guaranteed 3 days off per week.

Ahh cheers bud so you don't have a shift patteren as such are you told the week before what your rest days are for the following week?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Really looking for examples of the shift patteren they would use for a 36hr week with Sunday's included
 

Andy-mc

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depends on the company again, most companies have a rolling rota system over several weeks so your rest days are planned out and you have a few weeks of varying early shifts and a few weeks of varying lates.

Just for an example a 5 week rota could look like this but some go as high as 17-18 weeks

Week 1: Early/Early/Restday/Early/Restday/Restday/Late
Week 2: Late/Late/Late/Restday/Restday/Restday/Late
Week 3: Restday/Restday/Early/Early/Early/Early/Restday
Week 4: Restday/Restday/Restday/Late/Late/Late/Late
Week 5: Restday/Restday/Early/Restday/Early/Early/Early
 
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scotland1977

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depends on the company again, most companies have a rolling rota system over several weeks so your rest days are planned out and you have a few weeks of varying early shifts and a few weeks of varying lates.

Just for an example a 5 week rota could look like this but some go as high as 17-18 weeks

Week 1: Early/Early/Restday/Early/Restday/Restday/Late
Week 2: Late/Late/Late/Restday/Restday/Restday/Late
Week 3: Restday/Restday/Early/Early/Early/Early/Restday
Week 4: Restday/Restday/Restday/Late/Late/Late/Late
Week 5: Restday/Restday/Early/Restday/Early/Early/Early

Andy thanks so much for taking the time out for me and putting that up,is that a 5 week rolling Rota that you do?
 

Shaw S Hunter

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scotland1977 excuse my nosiness but this is the fourth thread you have started in six months asking more or less the same question about Sunday working. Clearly you are not (yet) a driver yourself so what gives?
 

scotland1977

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Looking at a career change but looking heavily at the shift systems in the railway industry.Some TOC'S have you working 7-9 days on the bounce with enforced Sunday's which basically means 2 weekends on one long weekend off.Other TOC'S have Sunday's inside so was just wondering how the shift system worked with the Sunday's inside.
 

Andy-mc

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Andy thanks so much for taking the time out for me and putting that up,is that a 5 week rolling Rota that you do?

no this is just a pure example of how rosters can work, mines over a lot more weeks than this and I'm not on a 4 day week either
 

ComUtoR

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The railway is typically built on link working but there is s shift away from it.

Each link will contain a specific number of lines and a specific number of rest days. Ours is based on 3 rest days per line. So a 50 line link will contain 150 rest days. Those are spread either 3 per line or averaged out.

Its the same with the number of hours per week. Our average is 35hrs so you can have 40+ hr weeks or 20hr weeks as long as the average is 35hrs.

Our "shift pattern" is early/late and each line simply alternates.

I can work ANY hour of the day. Typically early starts are around 0400 and late finishes are anywhere between 0000 and 0200. Most TOCs have a night shift.

There are 2 roster changes per year (for us) at the May and December timetable changes. Between them I know exactly what I'm doing as its on the master roster.

Sundays inside just means that Sunday is treated like any other day. The second you move to shift work and where weekend working is the norm you have to change your mentality. The Working week/Weekend mentality no longer exists. I don't think in terms of weekend anymore. I am either working or restday.

It doesn't matter if you have enforced Sundays or rostered Sundays. You can get 1 in 3 / 2 in 3 / or even 1 in 10. It depends on so much more than a "shift pattern" If anything a fixed pattern lends itself to working more weekends than anything.

I've posted a 4 day week example previously and it can be searched for but each TOC/Depot runs its own roster so you would need to be very specific and certainly ask more details in an interview. What's your concern ?
 

Shaw S Hunter

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Railways operate 7 days a week so weekend working is unavoidable on the front-line. There is also growing pressure for significant increases in Sunday services particularly on local routes. The expectation of regular full weekends off (ie both Saturday and Sunday as rest days) is not one that can be readily met (typically 1 in 3 is the best though there are places that have more) and it seems inevitable that in future it will be even more difficult to achieve. It's also almost impossible to avoid working 7 to 10 days in a row at some point in a roster. The issue of fatigue is well known and rosters once compiled can be subjected to a "fatigue check" to identify undesirable working but given the hours of the day during which trains run front-line staff are bound to find themselves continually making adjustments to their daily routines to compensate. If all this seems undesirable as a way of life to anyone then it's clearly not the job for you!
 

Tooktook

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The TOC I work for is broadly similar to the above. Most of the working weeks are six days in a row with one rest day. And then every five weeks you get a block week off. So most weeks you will either work a saturday or a Sunday. It is also a bit of a shock to the system if you like a drink. I tend to go four to five weeks without a proper drink. It has made me a binge drinker :)
 

E&W Lucas

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Looking at a career change but looking heavily at the shift systems in the railway industry.Some TOC'S have you working 7-9 days on the bounce with enforced Sunday's which basically means 2 weekends on one long weekend off.Other TOC'S have Sunday's inside so was just wondering how the shift system worked with the Sunday's inside.

Reading between the lines of your question, if you need particular days/ times off work, then this is not the career for you. Even if someone can supply the roster for the depot you are interested in joining, then there is no guarantee that this will not change significantly in the future.
 

Sunset route

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I should imagine that every drivers depot is very simular to large signalling centres and areas of small signal boxes. There are as many variations of roster as there are locations taking into account how many links and staff per link. There will be no standard roster anywhere in the country for any of the frontline grades just variations.
 

scotland1977

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Thanks everybody for taking the time out to reply.

Yeah I just find it strange that the drivers job concidering the nature of the position that you can work so many days on the bounce.Bus drivers can't work anymore than 6 days with out a minimum rest period.Train drivers if am correct can work up to 14days but can only drive for 13 days (excuse me if am wrong )

Am looking a train driving as a new career but before I start my journey I just need to know what is required from a driver regaurding working days .

I know in this modern time that the TOC'S will be looking to run the railway on a 7 day week and bring in the Sunday's as part of the working week I was just wondering how that would effect the current shift patteren done by drivers .
 

Bigfoot

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Even within the same toc the individual depots rosters are all very different. Some are always 4 on 3 off each week. Some do an average over the whole roster. It is very rare for drivers to work more than 7 days rostered, unless you start working freedays. If you don't want to work weekends then driving trains is no good for you.
 
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sw1ller

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we do a 3 week rota, quite simple really...

week 1 - wed thur fri sat (sunday not inc)
week 2 - mon tue fri sat (so 7 days on bounce up to Tuesday)
week 3 - mon tues wed thurs (now enjoy 5 days off)

they alternate earlies midday and lates with a night shift every 60-90 days.

but like most depots around the country, you can request permeant lates ect. or you can find someone to swap with. You soon get used to it and you can have a cracking social life if you work it well. However, expect to lose your Friday nights out with the lads ect.
 

Andy-mc

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Thanks everybody for taking the time out to reply.

Yeah I just find it strange that the drivers job concidering the nature of the position that you can work so many days on the bounce.Bus drivers can't work anymore than 6 days with out a minimum rest period.Train drivers if am correct can work up to 14days but can only drive for 13 days (excuse me if am wrong )

Am looking a train driving as a new career but before I start my journey I just need to know what is required from a driver regaurding working days .

I know in this modern time that the TOC'S will be looking to run the railway on a 7 day week and bring in the Sunday's as part of the working week I was just wondering how that would effect the current shift patteren done by drivers .

If you have a company that works to a 4 day week, then the max amount of days you would work In a row would be 8, obviously you can work rest days but that's your decision as long as you don't break the 13 day(hidden) rule.

Whats required from a driver regarding working day? simple! to be able to book on at anytime in a 24hour period and work 4 or 5 days of a week. there really isn't anything more to know, its just like any other shift based job based over 24hours

how will bringing sunday into the week effect drivers? again simple! Drivers will work Sunday's just like any other day instead of it being an optional (semi-optional) rest day worked

I think you're over thinking it all :D
 
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scotland1977

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If you have a company that works to a 4 day week, then the max amount of days you would work In a row would be 8, obviously you can work rest days but that's your decision as long as you don't break the 13 day(hidden) rule.

Whats required from a driver regarding working day? simple! to be able to book on at anytime in a 24hour period and work 4 or 5 days of a week. there really isn't anything more to know, its just like any other shift based job based over 24hours

how will bringing sunday into the week effect drivers? again simple! Drivers will work Sunday's just like any other day instead of it being an optional (semi-optional) rest day worked

I think you're over thinking it all :D

Not over thinking it I just need to know which patterens are used in the rail industry as if they bring Sunday's inside that would make it 2 weekends out of 3 you would work...well apart from a Sunday which is basically a day to adjust from lates to earlier on the Monday morning ...

2 kids at school so working 2 oot of three weekends isn't that great,no much of a drinker but I like the weekends to spend with the kids
 

ComUtoR

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Not over thinking it I just need to know which patterens are used in the rail industry

This is your first error. As others have pointed out you need to stop thinking about it in terms of "the rail industry" Each TOC and depot works its own bespoke system. Rostering is very complex. Basically there is a system of caveats that need to apply.

X number of days per week as RD (either averaged or fixed)
Maximum turn length
Minimum turn length
Minimum time between book off > Book on
Minimum time between shifts (Hidden 18)
Number of lines per link
Depot establishment
Number of diagrammed turns
% spare turns/cover turns

Probably others I haven't listed and probably different across the network/TOC/Depots.

My roster does not have a pattern. Other than 1 week early / 1 week late alternating. I think that is another misperception. Not everyone works to a fixed RD pattern.

as if they bring Sunday's inside that would make it 2 weekends out of 3 you would work...well apart from a Sunday which is basically a day to adjust from lates to earlier on the Monday morning ...

Not in the least. We have Sunday's inside but I do not work 2/3 Sundays. I have many weekends off and again, don't work 2/3 weekends whatsoever. At my depot/TOC it just isn't gonna happen.

My roster has 13 Sundays in 52 lines (1/4) They are not evenly distributed and there is even a block where I have 8 Sundays off in a row

2 kids at school so working 2 oot of three weekends isn't that great,no much of a drinker but I like the weekends to spend with the kids

Please don't be negative and please break those preconceptions. You appear to be looking for the problems and look to be determined to use Sundays as an excuse.

If your working a 4 day week and 2 of those were predominately weekends then your only working 2 days during the week. That's 3 days you can do a school run, attend school events, parents evening etc and during school holidays you get 3 days with them. The Monday to Friday folks only have the weekend for the kids. In some respects since joining the railway I have had much more time with them.

Don't get me wrong, shift work can be a killer and it can gimp both your social life and family life. It has been proven to take years off your life and is a high cause of divorce.

You need to take the benefits where you can and the 4 day week can be a huge benefit. There are advantages that it beings and many of us take the rough with the smooth.

You need to remember that the kids will not always be at school and, as I'm finding now, they get to an age where they are off out with their friends. In a few years they will be off to college, then uni, then work etc. No doubt you know already but kids are resilient little buggers. I think I have benefited from them being so young as they are growing up understanding that I'm a shift worker rather than a sudden shift from me being there to not being available.

I think the high wage compensates for the shifts and lots of shift work is higher paid because it can be so detrimental. The 4 day/35hr week is just at a point where it is manageable but still very productive.

Look at the rosters and shifts at your chosen TOC and depot to get a more specific insight. You would be surprised how much it varies between TOC's.
 

scotland1977

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Again thanks all for taking the time out to reply.

Shift work is fine I've always done shift work / weekend work
starting at all hours of the day
My concern is probably the working 7-9 days on the bounce even for fatigue etc.
I work shifts just now and I get a lot of time of hence why am trying to find out as much as possible about the shift patterens for drivers as I've a lot to give up with my current job and I need to know the move is the correct one.

Just that with certain TOC'S have enforced Sunday overtime at the moment with the outlook of changing their shift patteren I was just trying to work out roughly if that was to happen which shift patteren they would possibly adapt too.

With the enforced Sunday overtime it's basically 2/3 weekend your working as the Sunday which you have as a rest day is basically a day to adjust from late shift sat night to early shift Monday (jammie day)..

How do you drivers handle the 7 plus day working is it a case you get used to it?
Is there plenty days your spare that you can chill out in the mess room etc ?
 
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RBSN

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Thanks everybody for taking the time out to reply.

Yeah I just find it strange that the drivers job concidering the nature of the position that you can work so many days on the bounce.Bus drivers can't work anymore than 6 days with out a minimum rest period.Train drivers if am correct can work up to 14days but can only drive for 13 days (excuse me if am wrong )

Am looking a train driving as a new career but before I start my journey I just need to know what is required from a driver regaurding working days .

I know in this modern time that the TOC'S will be looking to run the railway on a 7 day week and bring in the Sunday's as part of the working week I was just wondering how that would effect the current shift patteren done by drivers .

If I was in your shoes (and I was not to long ago) I would put your efforts into getting your foot actually in the door.
 

scotland1977

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If I was in your shoes (and I was not to long ago) I would put your efforts into getting your foot actually in the door.

Done that..!!!!!

Hence all my questions bud.
There is no doubt it's a good job by the sounds of it,when I applied it was 9 months ago,I've changed jobs in the meantime , am weighing up which is the better position of employment.
Currently on the waiting list for a TOC..
Hence all my queries regaurding the shift patterens..lifestyle..job progression etc.Hate doing it on a public form but I don't know anybody in the industry.

Just trying to get as many views as I can tbh.
 

sw1ller

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well, I don't know if this helps at all but.... At my TOC I'm not allowed to work sundays until after I pass out as a full driver. so I only ever work 4 days on the bounce, normally just two to be fair. Plenty of time to adjust to railway life and I'm looking forward to working those extra sundays for all that lovely extra money.

Now, if you join a TOC where sundays are included, then it could be different. The HR at my TOC were brilliant and answered all my questions before I started, I just Emailed them with a list basically. Maybe try that, I'm sure you can find the right person to Email. Saves a lot of time and stops people berating you on a forum when they clearly know nothing about you.
 

scotland1977

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well, I don't know if this helps at all but.... At my TOC I'm not allowed to work sundays until after I pass out as a full driver. so I only ever work 4 days on the bounce, normally just two to be fair. Plenty of time to adjust to railway life and I'm looking forward to working those extra sundays for all that lovely extra money.

Now, if you join a TOC where sundays are included, then it could be different. The HR at my TOC were brilliant and answered all my questions before I started, I just Emailed them with a list basically. Maybe try that, I'm sure you can find the right person to Email. Saves a lot of time and stops people berating you on a forum when they clearly know nothing about you.

Thanks for that bud I will look and try and get contact details for HR.
 

Bellbell

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At my TOC/depot, Sundays are committed but not in the working week. There are overtime chasers falling over themselves to take other people's Sundays and no driver ever has a problem getting rid of a Sunday they don't want to work.
 
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