Train Identification (1966)

[Arglwydd Golau]

Having mentioned it in the Lymm/Audlem lines thread, I have often wondered about the train that was in the adjacent platform to our train on the night of
Friday 24th June 1966. At the time -I was eleven - and on the 'Aberdonian' railtour, I recall being able to, very sleepily, alight and walk to the end of the platform as our loco (MN 35026 'Lamport & Holt Line') took water whilst the parcels/newspaper train (WC 34013 'Okehampton) quietly simmered.

I'm hoping that someone with the relevant timetable can identify this train. I presume it had come from the SR via Oxford. Was it going further north? If so, presumably there was a loco change? How did the WC return to the SR? Was there a balanced working? I'm sure that I have seen the odd photo of a Bulleid at Banbury during the last few years of steam, but that was during the day and all sorts of movements could occur under the cover of darkness!
I've just checked on 'Six Bells' and we were at Banbury from 01h04 until 01h16, around 30 minutes down.

Thanks in anticipation!

 

[Harvester]

Have looked at some 1966 issues of the Railway Observer but found nothing of relevance. However I don’t think the WC would have gone further north, as Banbury was usually the changeover point for Southern steam workings, via Reading and Oxford, at that time. The loco may have returned on the following day’s York-Poole (from Banbury) which was a regular Banbury duty.

That Aberdonian railtour, looks like it was a great weekend out.

 

[Magdalia]

In 1966, between the closure of Oxford shed to steam at the start of the year, and the closure of the middle part of the Great Central in September 1966, the Poole-York/Newcastle and return were still booked for steam traction south of Banbury.

For at least part of that period a West Country was booked to work the northbound train to Banbury on Monday, Wednesday and Friday, returning south on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday. The southbound train on Monday, Wednesday and Friday, returning north on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday, were a Banbury Black 5.

I had assumed that the West Country just rested on Banbury shed for almost 24 hours, between the northbound and southbound workings. But this observation suggests that it may have been used on a night time working. Alternatively, 34013 could be on another working not related to the Poole-York/Newcastle and return.

I don't have the relevant 1966 WTT, but I do have 1965. That has a procession of northbound trains through Banbury just after midnight:

0049 4M43 2245 Reading West to Crewe
0100 4M05 2110 Eastleigh to Lawley Street (non stop)
0131 5M66 0010 Reading West to Bordesley
0149 3M09 2205 Paddington to Wellington parcels (non stop)
0157 5M77 2255 Paddington to Oxley

Going the other way the southbound trains included a 4O11 0110 Washwood Heath to Eastleigh due Banbury 0245, which might be relevant.

To confuse matters even further, BR Database has 34013 as a Salisbury loco. I would expect the Poole-York/Newcastle and return loco to be from Bournemouth.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

In 1966, between the closure of Oxford shed to steam at the start of the year, and the closure of the middle part of the Great Central in September 1966, the Poole-York/Newcastle and return were still booked for steam traction south of Banbury.

For at least part of that period a West Country was booked to work the northbound train to Banbury on Monday, Wednesday and Friday, returning south on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday. The southbound train on Monday, Wednesday and Friday, returning north on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday, were a Banbury Black 5.

I had assumed that the West Country just rested on Banbury shed for almost 24 hours, between the northbound and southbound workings. But this observation suggests that it may have been used on a night time working. Alternatively, 34013 could be on another working not related to the Poole-York/Newcastle and return.

I don't have the relevant 1966 WTT, but I do have 1965. That has a procession of northbound trains through Banbury just after midnight:

0049 4M43 2245 Reading West to Crewe
0100 4M05 2110 Eastleigh to Lawley Street (non stop)
0131 5M66 0010 Reading West to Bordesley
0149 3M09 2205 Paddington to Wellington parcels (non stop)
0157 5M77 2255 Paddington to Oxley

Going the other way the southbound trains included a 4O11 0110 Washwood Heath to Eastleigh due Banbury 0245, which might be relevant.

To confuse matters even further, BR Database has 34013 as a Salisbury loco. I would expect the Poole-York/Newcastle and return loco to be from Bournemouth.

Many thanks for that information, but I have to confess that my memory has played a trick and having checked with my old notebook (and that of my father) it was, in fact, 34012 'Launceston' (a Bournemouth loco) and not 34013....as you have suggested, that makes more sense. 'Six Bells' has 'The Aberdonian' at Banbury from 01h04 until 01h16 instead of the scheduled 00h40 - 00h48, so I am thinking that the train with 34012 could have been the 01h00 Eastleigh - Lawley Street, held at Banbury awaiting our late arrival. Immediately on leaving Banbury we noted a Tyseley 'Black 5' - 44762 - pure supposition obviously but that could have been the loco that was taking the WC hauled train forward. (Of course, this train must also have been running the following year...I know that the WTT indicates non-stop but would a stop for a loco change be noted in the WTT?) 34012 could then have returned south on the balanced working....sounds eminently feasible to me! (but what do I know!)

That Aberdonian railtour, looks like it was a great weekend out.

It was! Many memories of it....for an eleven year old, starved of steam on my local line for the previous three years (I wasn't remotely interested in modern traction) and reliant on my father to arrange a trip or visit when he could, it really was something special. Travelling to places that I had only read about and over lines that were due to be closed (I can actually say that I have been over the 'Waverly' route thanks to this journey). Forty eight hours on a train...little sleep, it was no wonder that I didn't make it to school on the Monday, I slept in until midday. Not sure what my Mum put on the note explaining my absence!

 

[Magdalia]

I have to confess that my memory has played a trick and having checked with my old notebook (and that of my father) it was, in fact, 34012 'Launceston' (a Bournemouth loco) and not 34013....as you have suggested, that makes more sense.

This morning I disappeared down a research rabbit hole trying to find out about 73083 and its mystery appearance at Doncaster. As often happens, I found something relevant to another question. 34012 was on the southbound Newcastle-Poole, presumably from Banbury, on Thursday 23 June 1966. It is plausible that 34012 then worked to Banbury again on Friday 24 June 1966.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

This morning I disappeared down a research rabbit hole trying to find out about 73083 and its mystery appearance at Doncaster. As often happens, I found something relevant to another question. 34012 was on the southbound Newcastle-Poole, presumably from Banbury, on Thursday 23 June 1966. It is plausible that 34012 then worked to Banbury again on Friday 24 June 1966.

@Magdalia...thanks very much for the information, that implies it didn't work the Poole-Newcastle then, but worked the Eastleigh-lawley Street (with a change of loco at Banbury).
Do you know if both of these duties were Basingstoke duties?

 

[Harvester]

@Magdalia...thanks very much for the information, that implies it didn't work the Poole-Newcastle then, but worked the Eastleigh-lawley Street (with a change of loco at Banbury).
Do you know if both of these duties were Basingstoke duties?

The Poole-York/Newcastle was a Bournemouth duty that summer, although on alternate days the Banbury Black 5 (from the previous day’s southbound working) would be used. From 5/9/66 it was booked for a Bournemouth Pacific between Poole and Basingstoke only, with the loco returning on the up working.

 

[Cowley]

Thread reopened for @Magdalia to add some details…

 

[Magdalia]

Many thanks for that information, but I have to confess that my memory has played a trick and having checked with my old notebook (and that of my father) it was, in fact, 34012 'Launceston'

Thread reopened for @Magdalia to add some details…

Thanks.

Recent research has uncovered more information, though it is possibly contradictory.

Railway Observer (RO) September 1966 has 34012 working the Poole-Newcastle on both 22/06/66 and 24/06/66. This is in the Southern Region notes that I didn't think to look at when the question was first raised.

I was prompted to look at RO by another source, a long two part article about the "Banbury link" published in Railway World in June and July 1987. As part of the article the author describes a journey on the Poole-Newcastle hauled by 34012. The text dates the journey as "towards the end of June 1966". But the article also includes the author's photo, taken from the droplight of the front coach at Banbury, with D1773 on the train and 34012 taking water in the north end bay. The photo caption gives the date as 25/06/66.

In all my research I've not found any 1966 instances of the same loco working the train in the same direction on 2 consecutive days. But I think it is not impossible, especially as we know that 34012 was in the station at Banbury in the middle of the night 24-25/06/66, not resting on the shed. Is it plausible that 34012 could have been used for special traffic, for example bananas, home grown fruit (it is strawberry season) or troop trains?

I hope that those who were around at the time might have some further thoughts in the light of this information. From my own perspective I want to confirm the date that D1773 worked north of Banbury.