Train travels between stations with a walking stick stuck in the train doors.

[busestrains]

I have just seen this video on Tik Tok which appears to show a walking stick stuck in the doors of what i think is an AGA 720 and the train managed to move and carry on with its journey with the walking stick stuck in the door.

Here is the link to the video:

TikTok - Make Your Day

vm.tiktok.com

It appears someone who was running for the train probably put their walking stick in the door at the previous stop to prevent the doors from closing so they could board. But the walking stick got stuck in the door and the interlock was obtained and the driver did not notice. So the train continued to the next stop with the walking stick hanging out of the train.

They were lucky no other train passed by and snapped it in half. Or worse it could have hit someone on the platform. So very unsafe.

But this brings up questions about why the interlock was obtained and the driver was able to move with it stuck in the door. Also why the driver did not notice on his CCTV DOO monitors. What if someone got their arm or hand stuck in the door and that was not detected.

 

[43066]

But this brings up questions about why the interlock was obtained and the driver was able to move with it stuck in the door. Also why the driver did not notice on his CCTV DOO monitors. What if someone got their arm or hand stuck in the door and that was not detected.

Not that surprising, unfortunately. Train doors close with some force and can trap smallish objects such as bag straps, brollies and even peoples’ hands and forearms. Interlock can still be obtained and these objects may not be visible in DOO monitors.

As for what can happen… There have been several instances of people being trapped and dragged in recent years. The most serious being West Wickham, where a woman alighted from a train and the doors closed behind her, trapping her rucksack strap. The train moved off, she was dragged underneath and unfortunately suffered “life changing injuries”.

 

[bramling]

I have just seen this video on Tik Tok which appears to show a walking stick stuck in the doors of what i think is an AGA 720 and the train managed to move and carry on with its journey with the walking stick stuck in the door.

Here is the link to the video:

TikTok - Make Your Day

vm.tiktok.com

It appears someone who was running for the train probably put their walking stick in the door at the previous stop to prevent the doors from closing so they could board. But the walking stick got stuck in the door and the interlock was obtained and the driver did not notice. So the train continued to the next stop with the walking stick hanging out of the train.

They were lucky no other train passed by and snapped it in half. Or worse it could have hit someone on the platform. So very unsafe.

But this brings up questions about why the interlock was obtained and the driver was able to move with it stuck in the door. Also why the driver did not notice on his CCTV DOO monitors. What if someone got their arm or hand stuck in the door and that was not detected.

The answer to the question about interlock is relatively simple, as it can clearly be seen that the stick is in the rubber section of the door assembly. It is very possible for someone to get a hand similarly caught in the rubber and interlock be obtained, as indeed has happened on occasions. There are two mitigations to this, firstly that the rubber should be sufficiently loose to enable any such obstruction to be pulled out, secondly some rolling stocks (such as LU’s 09 & S stocks) have a sensitive edge detection system fitted.

As to why the driver might not have noticed, camera views aren’t great and drivers tend to be looking for people rather than objects. It’s probably fair to add that, despite this issue receiving focus recently, some drivers do still seem to place reliance on interlock being obtained, despite the known possibility for this to be possible with objects trapped.

It’s fair to say that, for their part, many users don’t treat train doors with respect. In this instance it seems highly likely the stick was deliberately placed there in the hope of preventing the doors from closing.

 

[yorkie]

There was also the Newcastle TPE 185 incident, nearly 10 years ago now.

Questions such as "why [was] the interlock was obtained" are answered in the thread:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/latest-raib-report-newcastle-central.106046/

 

[43066]

It’s probably fair to add that, despite this issue receiving focus recently, some drivers do still seem to place reliance on interlock being obtained, despite the known possibility for this to be possible with objects trapped.

That was certainly the case in the 1980s and 1990s when stock with power operated doors was introduced. I’d imagine it’s now very rare (but of course cannot be completely discounted) because TOC training is very much focussed on the importance of checks beyond just looking for the interlock light. Drivers (or guards) who are relying on interlock really are risking a prison sentence these days.

Of course none of this eliminates the possibility of a combination of poor lighting conditions/equipment quality/human error etc. coming together to cause an incident.

 

[norbitonflyer]

There was also an incident a while ago at Elstree & Borehamwood of a dog getting dragged to its death after its lead got caught in a door.

 

[edwin_m]

That was certainly the case in the 1980s and 1990s when stock with power operated doors was introduced. I’d imagine it’s now very rare (but of course cannot be completely discounted) because TOC training is very much focussed on the importance of checks beyond just looking for the interlock light. Drivers (or guards) who are relying on interlock really are risking a prison sentence these days.

Of course none of this eliminates the possibility of a combination of poor lighting conditions/equipment quality/human error etc. coming together to cause an incident.

The most recent trapping events that RAIB has investigated still found at least one driver relying on interlock.

Passengers trapped in doors and dragged in north London, 23, 27 and 29 June 2022

www.gov.uk

The driver involved in the incident at Crouch Hill stated that they did not know about the limitations regarding door interlocks at all and that they relied on the door interlock indicator as assurance that nothing was trapped in the doors.

 

[1955LR]

It does surprise me that interlock can be achieved with an object just under 30mm in the door.

 

[O L Leigh]

The most recent trapping events that RAIB has investigated still found at least one driver relying on interlock.

Passengers trapped in doors and dragged in north London, 23, 27 and 29 June 2022

www.gov.uk

That’s a wee bit disingenuous.

In all incidents outlined in the digest, the train was brought to a stand by the driver after a short distance. Of course it shouldn’t have been moved at all, but in all cases the driver was not merely “relying on the interlock” and were also looking in the monitors.

The difficulty for a driver is differentiating between a hand (or other item) on the door and one stuck in the door. Some passengers will keep on pressing the button for as long as the train remains stationary and clearly waving to indicate a problem is often indistinguishable from waving in an attempt to get the driver to re-release the doors.

 

[800001]

I wonder wether anyone pressed the intercom to speak and make driver aware.
That had the potential to cause injury to people on a platform.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

There was also an incident a while ago at Elstree & Borehamwood of a dog getting dragged to its death after its lead got caught in a door.

Hateful business

 

[swt_passenger]

I wonder wether anyone pressed the intercom to speak and make driver aware.
That had the potential to cause injury to people on a platform.

It’ll usually be far more important to video it, than do something useful…

 

[Fat Gaz]

I have just seen this video on Tik Tok which appears to show a walking stick stuck in the doors of what i think is an AGA 720 and the train managed to move and carry on with its journey with the walking stick stuck in the door.

It's not a GA 720. GA 720s have Sensitive Edge Technology. With an object like what is shown in the video, if there was any movement of the stick after the doors have closed and interlock achieved it would have detected the movement and applied the emergency brake automatically. Prior to interlock the doors default to open in the train hasn't moved. This technology also works particularly well with very thin objects such as scarfs, leads and straps of bags etc. I believe that other Aventras don't have this. Those delivered after may well do.

 

[DanNCL]

A few similar incidents happened on the Tyne & Wear Metro some years ago. One with a walking stick, one with someone's arm, and I seem to recall there was another one too.

I have just seen this video on Tik Tok which appears to show a walking stick stuck in the doors of what i think is an AGA 720 and the train managed to move and carry on with its journey with the walking stick stuck in the door.

It's not a GA 720. GA 720s have Sensitive Edge Technology. With an object like what is shown in the video, if there was any movement of the stick after the doors have closed and interlock achieved it would have detected the movement and applied the emergency brake automatically. Prior to interlock the doors default to open in the train hasn't moved. This technology also works particularly well with very thin objects such as scarfs, leads and straps of bags etc. I believe that other Aventras don't have this. Those delivered after may well do.

It looks like a 345 to me. Black handrails as well as TFL notices on the doors.

I'm utterly amazed that the earlier Aventras don't have Sensitive Edge Technology, as the 2009 stock also built by Bombardier in Derby for TFL does have it.

I wonder wether anyone pressed the intercom to speak and make driver aware.
That had the potential to cause injury to people on a platform.

I don't wish to speculate here. But it does often seem that passengers won't use the intercom when it's appropriate to, but are quite happy to use it when there's nothing wrong!

 

[theking]

It's a class 345.

About time the BTP did an activity and started fining morons who hold the doors or old fools like this who jam their sticks in the doors rather than wait for the next train.

 

[800001]

A few similar incidents happened on the Tyne & Wear Metro some years ago. One with a walking stick, one with someone's arm, and I seem to recall there was another one too.



It looks like a 345 to me. Black handrails as well as TFL notices on the doors.

I'm utterly amazed that the earlier Aventras don't have Sensitive Edge Technology, as the 2009 stock also built by Bombardier in Derby for TFL does have it.


I don't wish to speculate here. But it does often seem that passengers won't use the intercom when it's appropriate to, but are quite happy to use it when there's nothing wrong!

I think some times the stickers which have a threat of a penalty for improper use some times put people off.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

There was also the Newcastle TPE 185 incident, nearly 10 years ago now.

Questions such as "why [was] the interlock was obtained" are answered in the thread:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/latest-raib-report-newcastle-central.106046/

management came over to my train in Newcastle to take some photos as part of the initial investigation Of this prior to RAIBs involvement. Ironically I was on Platform 10. I demonstrated to them I was able to achieve full interlock with the doors firmly clamped around my wrist and I was unable to pull my hand free from the door. Management were stunned. They had no idea that was achievable until I demonstrated it, even tho I had reported my observations previously.

Suffice to say the conductor involved didn't remain employed with TPE following this incident.

 

[scrapy]

If you look at each image a driver sees is could be around 5cm tall on their monitor. Therefore a 3cm wide stick would be around half a millimetre tall if indeed it shows on the image. They are also not just watching that image alone but many others, easy to see how it was missed!

 

[dubscottie]

There was a similar incident in Ireland many years ago. All was grand until the walking stick took out 1 or 2 passengers waiting at the next station. One of the many reasons why the "Spanish" DARTS were removed from service.

 

[Horizon22]

It's Stratford, probably platforms 9 or 10 (not the usual platforms) but is a 345 (you can see the TfL font on the door sticker). One is speeding past too at the beginning of the video in the same direction so something seems amiss / service disruption?

Seems like the dispatcher was about to do something about it (00:32) although it also seemed one dispatcher (maybe just customer service) just walked past and barely noticed at 0:19!

 

[Benjwri]

One is speeding past too at the beginning of the video in the same direction so something seems amiss / service disruption?

I think that’s just the Class 345 acceleration. There’s only 5 minutes between the last train departing and the next arriving at the peak so probably just minor delays, which are pretty common at Stratford.

 

[306024]

It's Stratford, probably platforms 9 or 10 (not the usual platforms) but is a 345 (you can see the TfL font on the door sticker). One is speeding past too at the beginning of the video in the same direction so something seems amiss / service disruption?

Seems like the dispatcher was about to do something about it (00:32) although it also seemed one dispatcher (maybe just customer service) just walked past and barely noticed at 0:19!

Yes all a bit odd. The train with the stick is running into pfm 10 (down main but in the up direction). The train accelerating away is in pfm 9 (up main). Both heading for Liverpool Street. That move is normal for GA trains in the morning peak but rare to see two MTR trains doing similar.

 

[Horizon22]

Yes all a bit odd. The train with the stick is running into pfm 10 (down main but in the up direction). The train accelerating away is in pfm 9 (up main). Both heading for Liverpool Street. That move is normal for GA trains in the morning peak but rare to see two MTR trains doing similar.

Looked like it might have been a warm summer weekend (lots of leisure clothes and a few suitcases) to me, so perhaps engineering works on the Electric lines.