trainline refuses to rebook Deutsche Bahn part of journey when Eurostar cancelled due to strike

[junetwo]

Hello,

My parents had booked Hannover-St.Pancras on Deutsche Bahn and Eurostar for Tuesday. Their eurostar was cancelled due to strike action, and my parents were offered rebooking options for later this year, which they took. However they have been unable to rebook the Hannover-Brussels leg of their journey. They booked the travel through thetrainline.co.uk in one transaction (although I don't know if that matters for rail, I am only familiar with airline regulations). Is it possible to get their DB leg changed as well? How?

Thank you
j

 

[Master29]

Hello,

My parents had booked Hannover-St.Pancras on Deutsche Bahn and Eurostar for Tuesday. Their eurostar was cancelled due to strike action, and my parents were offered rebooking options for later this year, which they took. However they have been unable to rebook the Hannover-Brussels leg of their journey. They booked the travel through thetrainline.co.uk in one transaction (although I don't know if that matters for rail, I am only familiar with airline regulations). Is it possible to get their DB leg changed as well? How?

Thank you
j

It should be if they did the entire transaction.

 

[Haywain]

Hello,

My parents had booked Hannover-St.Pancras on Deutsche Bahn and Eurostar for Tuesday. Their eurostar was cancelled due to strike action, and my parents were offered rebooking options for later this year, which they took. However they have been unable to rebook the Hannover-Brussels leg of their journey. They booked the travel through thetrainline.co.uk in one transaction (although I don't know if that matters for rail, I am only familiar with airline regulations). Is it possible to get their DB leg changed as well? How?

Thank you
j

Was the change to the Eurostar journey made through Trainline?

 

[Watershed]

Hello,

My parents had booked Hannover-St.Pancras on Deutsche Bahn and Eurostar for Tuesday. Their eurostar was cancelled due to strike action, and my parents were offered rebooking options for later this year, which they took. However they have been unable to rebook the Hannover-Brussels leg of their journey. They booked the travel through thetrainline.co.uk in one transaction (although I don't know if that matters for rail, I am only familiar with airline regulations). Is it possible to get their DB leg changed as well? How?

Thank you
j

Did they buy a through ticket, or a combination of tickets?

Unfortunately there is no automatic protection when buying combinations of tickets abroad - CIV protection only strictly speaking applies with a through ticket.

There is the informal 'HOTNAT' agreement between several operators, including DB and Eurostar. But that doesn't help when it's the second train that is cancelled but the first is still running.

 

[junetwo]

Was the change to the Eurostar journey made through Trainline?

Yes, it was I believe, all emails relating to the change come from trainline and not from eurostar.

Did they buy a through ticket, or a combination of tickets?

Unfortunately there is no automatic protection when buying combinations of tickets abroad - CIV protection only strictly speaking applies with a through ticket.

There is the informal 'HOTNAT' agreement between several operators, including DB and Eurostar. But that doesn't help when it's the second train that is cancelled but the first is still running.

Looking at the trainline booking confirmation email it states two bookings, one Adult Super Sparpreis Europa and one Eurostar. Is it even possible to buy a true through ticket?

 

[Watershed]

Looking at the trainline booking confirmation email it states two bookings, one Adult Super Sparpreis Europa and one Eurostar. Is it even possible to buy a true through ticket?

Unfortunately this greatly reduces their rights. The only kind of through ticket that I'm aware of for such a journey would be an Interrail pass (which can, incidentally, offer reasonable value even for just a simple return journey, particularly as the journey to/from the point of departure in the UK is also included).

 

[AlbertBeale]

Unfortunately this greatly reduces their rights. The only kind of through ticket that I'm aware of for such a journey would be an Interrail pass (which can, incidentally, offer reasonable value even for just a simple return journey, particularly as the journey to/from the point of departure in the UK is also included).

Perhaps, even if receiving what are technically two separate tickets, they'd have been better looked after (in the case of one leg being cancelled but therefore needing to change both tickets) if the original booking for both legs had been made via one of the carriers concerned. In the past I've booked a through DB-Eurostar journey via one DB booking - though perhaps that isn't possible at the moment?

 

[junetwo]

Thank you all for the replies and input btw.

I think my parents succeeded booking this journey via DB previously, but this time it always failed somehow. Booking international rail travel is not straight forward! i wonder if old fashioned travel agents could be helpful here?

I have little experience about EU regulation in this space, but doesn't https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIV_(rail_travel) provide some protection for consumers?

 

[Watershed]

Perhaps, even if receiving what are technically two separate tickets, they'd have been better looked after (in the case of one leg being cancelled but therefore needing to change both tickets) if the original booking for both legs had been made via one of the carriers concerned. In the past I've booked a through DB-Eurostar journey via one DB booking - though perhaps that isn't possible at the moment?

I'm not convinced that this would have helped. The key issue is that buy buying two separate tickets, you have two separate contracts (as, unlike the National Rail Conditions of Travel here, there is no automatic protection abroad when "splitting").

I think my parents succeeded booking this journey via DB previously, but this time it always failed somehow. Booking international rail travel is not straight forward! i wonder if old fashioned travel agents could be helpful here?

There used to be through fares from the continent to London, sold by DB. Unfortunately Eurostar changed their booking system and so these fares are no longer available; DB do still sell tickets for such journeys at a discount compared to buying them individually, but you ultimately end up with two tickets and hence all of the problems which this entails.

Old-fashioned travel agents may have the ability to sell through CIV tickets, but I'm not sure whether these even exist anymore - and if so, whether they would be any cheaper than an Interrail pass plus reservations.

I have little experience about EU regulation in this space, but doesn't https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIV_(rail_travel) provide some protection for consumers?

Unfortunately CIV only applies on a per-ticket basis - as above, unlike the NRCoT there is no protection afforded to holders of separate tickets.

There is also the EU Passenger Rights and Obligations Regulation which applies to international travel, as well as most long distance domestic journeys across the EU. However, again, this only applies to the journey as defined in the contract - and the CIV don't say that separate tickets can be construed as one contract.

 

[Llanigraham]

Old-fashioned travel agents may have the ability to sell through CIV tickets, but I'm not sure whether these even exist anymore - and if so, whether they would be any cheaper than an Interrail pass plus reservations.


Unfortunately CIV only applies on a per-ticket basis - as above, unlike the NRCoT there is no protection afforded to holders of separate tickets.

Ffestiniog Travel are able to book tickets for individuals on trains across Europe, as well as running tours. Whether they do that on one ticket or not I haven't yet found out, as we aren't travelling through France until Oct 2023.

 

[miklcct]

There used to be through fares from the continent to London, sold by DB. Unfortunately Eurostar changed their booking system and so these fares are no longer available; DB do still sell tickets for such journeys at a discount compared to buying them individually, but you ultimately end up with two tickets and hence all of the problems which this entails.

Doesn't DB have the ability to stick multiple fares onto a single ticket?

 

[30907]

Doesn't DB have the ability to stick multiple fares onto a single ticket?

They can certainly issue them in one booking, with an add-on for ES that undercuts the normal one-way price (just checked for a month hence). Not as good as the old London Spezial but...
This doesn't help the OP now, but might be worth noting for the future - I am fairly sure that Trainline didn't/couldn't access the special DB add-on.

 

[Watershed]

Doesn't DB have the ability to stick multiple fares onto a single ticket?

They'll sell multiple tickets in one booking, the same as what Trainline do.

 

[AlbertBeale]

They'll sell multiple tickets in one booking, the same as what Trainline do.

Oh for the days of yore (with all the railways in public hands and co-operating rather than competing) when you could travel across Europe on one ticket (even if it was separate coupons, not least to allow for the ferry part, stapled into one cover, reservations and all). It was one CIV ticket all the way.

If the EU Commission gets its way, and through ticketing (or similar) in EU parts of Europe is mandated - ie not just ease of booking from another country as part of one transaction, but a real through ticket - then maybe with a through ticket will come traditional CIV protection again.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If the EU Commission gets its way, and through ticketing (or similar) in EU parts of Europe is mandated - ie not just ease of booking from another country as part of one transaction, but a real through ticket - then maybe with a through ticket will come traditional CIV protection again.

Through ticketing is not necessary (and may not be desirable - TCV kilometric through ticketing was quite expensive compared with the deals offered by individual operators). All that is required is for the EU to legislate the same protections UK passengers have on a through journey regardless of how it is ticketed.

 

[Royston Vasey]

Perhaps, even if receiving what are technically two separate tickets, they'd have been better looked after (in the case of one leg being cancelled but therefore needing to change both tickets) if the original booking for both legs had been made via one of the carriers concerned. In the past I've booked a through DB-Eurostar journey via one DB booking - though perhaps that isn't possible at the moment?

Definitely possible to book, I hold a Super Sparpreis Europa ticket connecting to Eurostar in Paris next week, they were sold by DB International as one itinerary in one email but fulfilled by separate links to PDF tickets. Both are marked CIV 1080 (retailer being DB) - although both are international journeys so I couldn't say whether that is DB guaranteeing I will get to Paris and Eurostar separately guaranteeing I will get to London from Paris, OR DB guaranteeing I will get to London from Germany; I am not now 100% sure, but my understanding has always been the latter.

It certainly feels like the latter should be the case. If I buy a CIV ticket from a GB station to London International and a CIV Eurostar ticket to Paris, my expectation is that I am covered to Paris whatever happens in GB...

Unfortunately CIV only applies on a per-ticket basis - as above, unlike the NRCoT there is no protection afforded to holders of separate tickets.

There is also the EU Passenger Rights and Obligations Regulation which applies to international travel, as well as most long distance domestic journeys across the EU. However, again, this only applies to the journey as defined in the contract - and the CIV don't say that separate tickets can be construed as one contract.

What, then, is the point of a London International CIV destination on a GB rail ticket? They will always be separate to the Eurostar ticket?

 

[Watershed]

What, then, is the point of a London International CIV destination on a GB rail ticket? They will always be separate to the Eurostar ticket?

That's my understanding, and The Man in Seat 61 agrees. In practice, there are various arrangements (HOTNAT, AJC) in place which mean that you will likely be accommodated on another train in the event of delays either way - and even before these agreements existed, you would often be assisted anyway. But if you miss the last train of the day somewhere that you have "split", and thus need a hotel, I think you would find it very difficult to be able to recover the cost from any of the operators. Whether travel insurance would cover the cost would depend on your policy wording (some policies may cover it, but probably not all).

The primary benefit of London International CIV tickets is that they usually offer a substantial discount on 'normal' fares to London, especially as many don't have peak restrictions (or have less onerous restrictions).

 

[Royston Vasey]

That's my understanding, and The Man in Seat 61 agrees. In practice, there are various arrangements (HOTNAT, AJC) in place which mean that you will likely be accommodated on another train in the event of delays either way - and even before these agreements existed, you would often be assisted anyway. But if you miss the last train of the day somewhere that you have "split", and thus need a hotel, I think you would find it very difficult to be able to recover the cost from any of the operators. Whether travel insurance would cover the cost would depend on your policy wording (some policies may cover it, but probably not all).

The primary benefit of London International CIV tickets is that they usually offer a substantial discount on 'normal' fares to London, especially as many don't have peak restrictions (or have less onerous restrictions).

Interesting. I had always assumed the primary benefit to London International CIV was protection of connections and the price just a nice bonus. My itinerary includes an early afternoon ES departure so it's not the last of the day and I am sure there'll be no problem in practice. I would be a touch concerned if I was on the last departure - I would expect travel insurance to cover it (and I'm travelling for business anyway, in which case they'd just pay for a hotel and not bother going to the insurer)

 

[AlbertBeale]

Definitely possible to book, I hold a Super Sparpreis Europa ticket connecting to Eurostar in Paris next week, they were sold by DB International as one itinerary in one email but fulfilled by separate links to PDF tickets. Both are marked CIV 1080 (retailer being DB) - although both are international journeys so I couldn't say whether that is DB guaranteeing I will get to Paris and Eurostar separately guaranteeing I will get to London from Paris, OR DB guaranteeing I will get to London from Germany; I am not now 100% sure, but my understanding has always been the latter.

The latter has applied to me in practice in the past - DB-booked ticket(s) from Hamburg to London a few years ago, when there was a delay on a German route, led to DB giving me a hotel for the night, and then re-routing me via a different route to London the next day. None of the operators concerned seemed to think they ought to do anything other than what they did, though my booking was presumably two separate tickets (albeit on one itinerary), and one of the operators concerned had nothing to do with my original booked journey. Having had experience of "the old days" of co-operative integrated ticketing, I assumed that what happened to me was normal and felt no worries at any stage in the process. But reading some of this thread makes me wonder whether in fact I was just very lucky!