Transport for Wales - Multiflex Price Increases

[DLyle44004]

Had to book a multiplex ticket with Transport for Wales this morning. Fare has gone up by £3 from VoG to Cardiff Central, and £5 between Cardiff and Newport.
Has anyone heard any news about this - or experienced similar? Nothing on TfW's website about this increase.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

These fares aren't regulated in any event - they can be increased by any amount, however frequently TfW wish, or completely withdrawn.

Have they been increased in recent months, or is the first increase for a while?

Wouldn't surprise me if these fares are deliberately made unattractive over the next year or two, as they're abused relentlessly and Pay as you Go probably solves the issue once fully rolled out.

 

[DLyle44004]

These fares aren't regulated in any event - they can be increased by any amount, however frequently TfW wish, or completely withdrawn.

Have they been increased in recent months, or is the first increase for a while?

Wouldn't surprise me if these fares are deliberately made unattractive over the next year or two, as they're abused relentlessly and Pay as you Go probably solves the issue once fully rolled out.

Get that they're not regulated - but the tickets already went up with the March price increases, and this recent change is another 12% or so on top.
Right in that they're unattractive now that there's only a few quid's difference in just buying standard fares as is. There's been a big push by TfW to sell their mutliflex tickets in the last year or so, and PAYG is only valid on TfW/Cross Country and not GWR - essentially cutting the number of valid services in half for people on the mainline.

 

[Watershed]

Wouldn't surprise me if these fares are deliberately made unattractive over the next year or two, as they're abused relentlessly

The solution to such 'abuse' is to check tickets regularly and thoroughly, not to inconvenience the vast majority of law-abiding passengers and charge them more.

But that's the railway mentality for you in a nutshell - operational convenience trumps customer convenience every day of the week and twice on Sundays (quite literally on many parts of the network).

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

The solution to such 'abuse' is to check tickets regularly and thoroughly, not to inconvenience the vast majority of law-abiding passengers and charge them more.

But that's the railway mentality for you in a nutshell - operational convenience trumps customer convenience every day of the week and twice on Sundays (quite literally on many parts of the network).

They are checking regularly, which is why they're finding the abuse. It's customers not activating tickets until the conductor pops along in the hope that they don't have to activate one for the day. On metro lines with frequent stops like on the routes in the Valleys, it's never going to be possible to get everyone.

You either gate every station (norm practical) or you accept the product isn't practical because, sadly, a sizeable, significant minority of your customer base can't be trusted.

I do think people like you fail to understand that fraud/misuse isn't just one or two people per train, it's become an emergency - ordinarily good, honest people have turned to fraud because they can't sustain their lifestyle/commute/whatever. This is compounded by whenever the railway cracks down on this, they can't say that the people running to the press are downright dishonest, nor can they go into details of the fraud for fear of making it even more known and abused.

 

[Tetchytyke]

You either gate every station (norm practical) or you accept the product isn't practical because, sadly, a sizeable, significant minority of your customer base can't be trusted.

You don't have to gate all the stations, you just have to gate the main stations which are the biggest traffic draws. Central and Queen Street are gated and if you also gate the stations within walking distance of Cardiff city centre (Cathays, Ninian Park, Cardiff Bay, and Grangetown for instance), then you've covered most of your traffic. You won't catch everyone and the particularly nefarious will do things like short-fare, but most people will "forget" only if it's not too difficult to do so.

 

[Watershed]

They are checking regularly, which is why they're finding the abuse. It's customers not activating tickets until the conductor pops along in the hope that they don't have to activate one for the day.

That's got absolutely nothing to do with the ticket type though, has it? It's no different to "pay when challenged" (or nowadays, "buy when challenged"). mTickets that haven't been activated prior to boarding aren't valid, simple as that.

On metro lines with frequent stops like on the routes in the Valleys, it's never going to be possible to get everyone.

It'd be a lot easier if guards didn't have responsibility for the doors... There are plenty of tram systems that operate on a "buy on board" basis (e.g. Sheffield, Blackpool and Birmingham, no doubt others abroad too) with even more frequent stops, so I simply don't buy this as an excuse for making life harder for law-abiding passengers.

You either gate every station (norm practical) or you accept the product isn't practical because, sadly, a sizeable, significant minority of your customer base can't be trusted.

Or you accept that a small percentage of people will inevitably get away with not paying the fare, but that you can keep the majority honest by conducting regular checks. Again, this has nothing to do with the ticket type - presenting a MultiFlex that was activated after boarding is no better than offering to buy onboard.

I do think people like you fail to understand that fraud/misuse isn't just one or two people per train, it's become an emergency - ordinarily good, honest people have turned to fraud because they can't sustain their lifestyle/commute/whatever.

Thanks for the generalisation, but I'm perfectly aware of the amount of irregular travel that goes on. By all means, punish the guilty - but that's still not an excuse for inconveniencing the law-abiding majority. This attitude is like being at school again - "own up or we'll punish all of you"!

This is compounded by whenever the railway cracks down on this, they can't say that the people running to the press are downright dishonest

Fraud requires there to be a false representation. I see no such representation here.

If there really is evidence of fraud, the train companies should feel free to say so. If there isn't, they shouldn't be throwing around such terms carelessly.

nor can they go into details of the fraud for fear of making it even more known and abused.

I'm afraid this is just an extension of the "security by obscurity" mindset, which is a complete non-starter.

 

[DLyle44004]

You either gate every station (norm practical) or you accept the product isn't practical because, sadly, a sizeable, significant minority of your customer base can't be trusted.

A lot of services now are heavily policed by guards. I don't know what the figures are, but I imagine that fare-dodging is down on Arriva days - although happy for someone to correct me on this.

My biggest issue is the stark divide between Welsh Government's (as TfW) policy drive to push people into sustainable transport options - yet making it less affordable to do so? Especially as MultiFlex tickets are a big push towards a new shift in commute/stay-at-home work patterns. Even as a non-regulated fare, it is still a backdoor increase of over 15% from the start of the year.

 

[jamiearmley]

I do think people like you fail to understand that fraud/misuse isn't just one or two people per train, it's become an emergency - ordinarily good, honest people have turned to fraud because they can't sustain their lifestyle/commute/whatever

Totally agree. It's a massive proportion nowadays , especially since the advent of self bought tickets.

they can't say that the people running to the press are downright dishonest, nor can they go into details of the fraud for fear of making it even more known and abused

Again, agree.

There's things I can't say but I've seen lots of evidence to support this

 

[DelW]

Totally agree. It's a massive proportion nowadays , especially since the advent of self bought tickets.

These types of tickets weren't invented by passengers. They were invented, and have beeen heavily promoted, by the collective railway industry, as part of their desire to close down ticket offices and strip out TVMs. Maybe some of these issues should have been worked out before the rush to push so many passengers into using them.

Personally I still prefer to buy CCST from a staffed ticket office, so hopefully I'm unlikely to be considered to be among the fraudulent contingent. I would have less confidence of that if I was made to use m-tickets and their like, in which I'd have much less trust that I'd bought or used them correctly.