Transport for Wales Rovers - Price Changes

[ServerHoster]

It looks like Transport for Wales has changed the validity and prices of some of their rover tickets, unannounced. Some that I have found are:

Explore Wales 4 in 8 Pass
Was: £109 https://www.brfares.com/!rovers?nlc=H743&period=20240401
Now: £149 https://www.brfares.com/!rovers?nlc=H743&period=20240705
Price increase of +36%
No longer valid on Stagecoach/First/Arriva
Now valid on Traws Cymru instead

South Wales 4 in 8 Pass
Was: £76 https://www.brfares.com/!rovers?nlc=H746&period=20240401
Now: £119 https://www.brfares.com/!rovers?nlc=H746&period=20240705
Price increase of +56%

North & Mid Wales 4 in 8 Pass
Was: £76 https://www.brfares.com/!rovers?nlc=H515&period=20240401
Now: £119 https://www.brfares.com/!rovers?nlc=H515&period=20240705
Price increase of +56%

Explore Cambrian Day Ranger
Name changed from Cambrian Coast Day Ranger
Was: £14.60 https://www.brfares.com/!rovers?nlc=I395&period=20240401
Now: £18 https://www.brfares.com/!roverdetail?nlc=I395&rvr=CCD
Price increase of +23%
Also now valid on Traws Cymru buses along/near the Cambrian Coast Line railway route


(prices are shown without railcard)

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Value is going to depend on whether you use the expanded bus services I suppose.

Given that a 4 day BritRail pass is currently £178 with no time restrictions and a greatly expanded area, these new fares at £119-£149 are steep for the demographic using them.

Most of the people buying the current Welsh ranger/rover tickets are foreign tourists anyway - so surely they'll just move to the BritRail pass if they do a bit of forward planning.

I suspect whoever is doing their pricing analysis hasn't understood their market, unless it's a deliberate attempt to erode and wind the product down.

The next biggest user are those with Senior Railcards, and with the ⅓ discount, probably still makes the new fares reasonably palatable.

 

[Kite159]

Ouch!

When was the last time the prices for those rover products increased? But still a 56% hike for the 4 in 8 passes for South Wales & North Wales probably might make it less appealing to some visitors whom want to explore the rail network. TfW Rail trying to price off the tourists?

I guess the other TfW Rail day rangers will see similar hikes at some point (the Explore Cardiff & Valleys, North Wales 'All Zone')?

 

[sheff1]

Value is going to depend on whether you use the expanded bus services I suppose.

It would seem the bus validity is reduced rather than expanded.

 

[JonathanH]

A distinct wake up call for all those who think that taking trains into public ownership is the first step to cheaper fares.

 

[Rover]

They are also now available to purchase online.
https://tickets.trc.cymru/

 

[Adam Williams]

They are also now available to purchase online.
https://tickets.trc.cymru/

mTicket, if anyone else was wondering.

 

[DLyle44004]

Does the new Explore Wales pass also offer discounts on the Ffestiniog (and other heritage lines)?

Remember the old pass (from Arriva days):


If not, they are really giving the public a shoddy deal, given that their own press release sings the praises about seeing Wales, a close to 50% price increase is a nail in the coffin for Welsh tourism (for the 3 people who choose to go beyond Cardiff).

 

[redreni]

A distinct wake up call for all those who think that taking trains into public ownership is the first step to cheaper fares.

We shall have to see what happens to fares significant numbers of people who live in Wales pay. The government can't really escape the fact it is ultimately responsible for the fares and if people think they're too high, they do have the option of voting for politicians who stand for election on a platform of reducing them.

Much as I don't like the fact there appear to be more votes in freezing fuel duty than in freezing public transport fares, it is in principle more democratic than leaving it up to the market.

 

[Markdvdman]

It is always the way offers end up not being so!!! This Friday for example coming no discounts available on any trains to West Wales on TFW! First time I have ever seen it!

 

[Envoy]

It is always the way offers end up not being so!!! This Friday for example coming no discounts available on any trains to West Wales on TFW! First time I have ever seen it!

I guess that this Friday resources will be stretched due to the Billy Joel concert in the stadium in Cardiff.

 

[Markdvdman]

I guess that this Friday resources will be stretched due to the Billy Joel concert in the stadium in Cardiff.

Ah good point that - what I found ridiculous was cheap split tickets - Bridgend to Gowerton, then Gowerton to Llanelli is not cheap makes no sense that! I suppose will have to catch the T1C from Cardiff to Cross Hands but that 6:58pm arrival is never likely on a Friday.....

 

[Haywain]

Ah good point that - what I found ridiculous was cheap split tickets - Bridgend to Gowerton, then Gowerton to Llanelli is not cheap makes no sense that! I suppose will have to catch the T1C from Cardiff to Cross Hands but that 6:58pm arrival is never likely on a Friday.....

It depends what you call cheap, I suppose. Trainsplit offers Cardiff Central to Llanelli on Friday evening for £10.64 at 21:04 and £11.66 at 19:41. But many might say that £18.20 isn’t horribly expensive for a walk-up single.

 

[ChrisC]

Ouch!

When was the last time the prices for those rover products increased? But still a 56% hike for the 4 in 8 passes for South Wales & North Wales probably might make it less appealing to some visitors whom want to explore the rail network. TfW Rail trying to price off the tourists?

Like many rovers and rangers I am not sure how many of these were actually sold. Unlike similar tickets in many parts of the country TfW and even Arriva before them have at least advertised them on their websites.

I do think that this huge increase in price on what is only a 4 day ticket will put tourists off using them. I used the North Wales version about 8 years ago and found it very good value back then. I was staying in Caernarfon and on my outward and return journeys from Nottingham I used it to travel by rail between Crewe and Bangor and on the Arriva bus between Bangor and Caernarfon. It then allowed me 2 more days whilst I was there of rail travel and could actually be used on buses for all days Within the 8. It also then gave significant reductions on fares for the Welsh Highland and Ffestiniog Railways. For a similar holiday I don’t think that I would use it now because the validity on buses in North Wales is so reduced. Without Arriva it can only be used between Bangor and Caernarfon on the 2 hourly T2.

 

[CyrusWuff]

mTicket, if anyone else was wondering.

Interesting. Just looked on our Ticket Office TIS and that's only showing CCST and PRT as available fulfilment methods. Do we have another retailer ignoring RCS data perchance?

Mind you, it also says they can be sold through a web TIS but don't have ToD enabled either, so I'm not sure how that's supposed to work!

 

[MikeWM]

Ugh, that's one nasty and excessive price hike on rovers that already seemed not-terribly-great value by comparison with the area/number of lines/number of stations covered by other rovers. I guess the bus validity added value that most other rovers don't, but that's now much-reduced too.

I'm glad I did a South Wales one last year, as I'm much less likely to at the new price level.

I do think that this huge increase in price on what is only a 4 day ticket will put tourists off using them.

Well, it certainly does put me off :-/ I don't see much point in the North Wales one at all unless you're really keen on travelling on the Cambrian, and there are probably other cheaper ways to do that - for the North Wales coast lines a Coast and Peaks rover is now significantly cheaper and covers significantly more area. (It's a shame the 7-day version of the Coast and Peaks was withdrawn some years back, but the 4 in 8 is still decent value).

 

[DelW]

Like many rovers and rangers I am not sure how many of these were actually sold. Unlike similar tickets in many parts of the country TfW and even Arriva before them have at least advertised them on their websites.

I certainly had the impression that not many were sold locally. A few years ago I bought the South Wales 4 in 8 from Swansea station and it took the combined effort of both ticket clerks five or ten minutes to work out where it was on their system and how to issue it. Even then, they couldn't find the booklet that was supposed to accompany it, though fortunately I'd downloaded and printed most of the important info myself. That was just as well, as I had to show it to most of the bus drivers, who knew nothing about it and just said "we can't accept train tickets".

 

[MikeWM]

I certainly had the impression that not many were sold locally. A few years ago I bought the South Wales 4 in 8 from Swansea station and it took the combined effort of both ticket clerks five or ten minutes to work out where it was on their system and how to issue it.

One of the advantages of living near to Cambridge is that - over many years and many different rovers/rangers etc. - I've never had an issue buying anything, however obscure, from the ticket office there. Often it is accompanied by a comment along the lines of 'I've never been asked for one of those before' but even in such cases the member of staff invariably finds the ticket very quickly on their system. If all ticket office staff were as good as those at Cambridge we'd have a better railway.

I have had issues at central London terminii though. I recall at least one occasion where Waterloo ticket office couldn't work out how to sell me some rover or other.

 

[Andy Pacer]

It's interesting that GB Rail Rover has £119 as the new price from 5 July, I purchased one valid from 24 July and paid the old price. I did, however, whilst I was there notice the higher prices shown on the TfW website.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

As with fare changes elsewhere (LNER), the product creates a ceiling for other fares. The rovers undercut OPR / SVR fares and/or offer exceptional value once long distance travel is take into account.
For example:
Shrewsbury to Swansea, OPR route Newport £81.40
Shrewsbury to Swansea, OPR route Llandovery £62.50
Shrewsbury to Pembroke Dock, OPR route Newport £107.70

For a tourist already in the area, the prices may feel expensive. For those using the rover to travel some distance to the area, as per @ChrisC it may cover the cost of travel and then give very good value whilst in the area.
£119.00 less £81.40 for a Shrewsbury to Swansea OPR = £37.60 balance for two further days rail travel.

It is a problem of Rovers/Rangers with a large geographical validity.

 

[MikeWM]

It is a problem of Rovers/Rangers with a large geographical validity.

This is true - the area is quite large but the railway and settlements rather spread out.

Nevertheless, while this is true, I'd find it hard to eg. justify doing a 4-in-8 Wales rover when it is now more expensive than a 7-day Heart Of England/East Midlands/North East Rover - the English ones may contain a smaller geographical area but cover considerably more track, trains and places to go - and with almost double the days it can be used.

I'd also argue that the North Wales should be a bit cheaper than the South Wales. The North Wales is now basically at the price level of a Shrewsbury-Holyhead OPR plus a Shrewsbury-Pwllheli OPR, which is more-or-less what anyone is likely to do with it anyway. (I've done a couple of South Wales ones in my time, but never done a North Wales one, as I never thought it was especially good value when compared with pretty much any other rover available - and that was before they put it up 56%!)

 

[MrJeeves]

Quite ironic that they have sent out a marketing email about these tickets today after jacking up the prices!

Hi David,

Unlock Wales with one ticket. Our Explore passes offer unlimited train travel acrodd [sic] our rail network and on selected TrawsCymru routes.

So, whether you’re looking to go from North to South Wales with all the stops in-between or just explore one region, we’ve got a pass to suit.

What’s available?

4 day passes
Get unlimited travel for 4 days in an 8-day period. Passes available on our app or website include Explore Wales, Explore North and Mid Wales, and Explore South Wales.

Day passes
Get unlimited travel for one whole day* Passes available on our app or website include Explore West Wales and Explore Cambrian. Other Rover and Ranger passes can be bought from a station ticket office or from the conductor on the train.

 

[JonathanH]

Quite ironic that they have sent out a marketing email about these tickets today after jacking up the prices!

Not really. Seems like a fairly sensible strategy. Put up the price to increase the yield, then advertise them to try to attract custom at the new higher price. Potential customers may not be aware of the previous prices.

 

[Dai Corner]

Not really. Seems like a fairly sensible strategy. Put up the price to increase the yield, then advertise them to try to attract custom at the new higher price. Potential customers may not be aware of the previous prices.

They've also started a social media campaign. I'm afraid I couldn't resist commenting about the price increases

 

[Andy Pacer]

They've also started a social media campaign. I'm afraid I couldn't resist commenting about the price increases

Which they will be fully aware of. As the previous poster says, makes perfect sense to market the product.

 

[Dai Corner]

Which they will be fully aware of. As the previous poster says, makes perfect sense to market the product.

TfW will be aware but potential passengers to whom the ad was targeted might not.

 

[Haywain]

TfW will be aware but potential passengers to whom the ad was targeted might not.

Maybe, but it's not a lot of help to them to be told that it used to be cheaper.

 

[AY1975]

It looks like Transport for Wales has changed the validity and prices of some of their rover tickets, unannounced. Some that I have found are:

Explore Wales 4 in 8 Pass
Was: £109 https://www.brfares.com/!rovers?nlc=H743&period=20240401
Now: £149 https://www.brfares.com/!rovers?nlc=H743&period=20240705
Price increase of +36%
No longer valid on Stagecoach/First/Arriva
Now valid on Traws Cymru instead

South Wales 4 in 8 Pass
Was: £76 https://www.brfares.com/!rovers?nlc=H746&period=20240401
Now: £119 https://www.brfares.com/!rovers?nlc=H746&period=20240705
Price increase of +56%

North & Mid Wales 4 in 8 Pass
Was: £76 https://www.brfares.com/!rovers?nlc=H515&period=20240401
Now: £119 https://www.brfares.com/!rovers?nlc=H515&period=20240705
Price increase of +56%

Explore Cambrian Day Ranger
Name changed from Cambrian Coast Day Ranger
Was: £14.60 https://www.brfares.com/!rovers?nlc=I395&period=20240401
Now: £18 https://www.brfares.com/!roverdetail?nlc=I395&rvr=CCD
Price increase of +23%
Also now valid on Traws Cymru buses along/near the Cambrian Coast Line railway route


(prices are shown without railcard)

I understand that the Explore Wales Pass also used to be valid on Cardiff Bus, but there is no mention of this on the TfW website so presumably it is no longer valid on their buses either.

The TfW website does mention that Explore Wales is now valid on Traws Cymru buses but for the Explore Cambrian Day Ranger it only mentions this on the map showing its area of validity.

AIUI Traws Cymru is basically the bus arm of TfW.

Conversely, the Explore West Wales Day Ranger has been reduced from £14.60 to £12 adult while the child ticket is down from £7.30 to £6 and for railcard holders it is now £7.90 instead of £9.60.

The Heart of Wales Circular Day Ranger has increased slightly from £44.30 to £45, with the child version up from £22.15 to £22.50 and for railcard holders it's now £29.95 instead of £29.20. The TfW website also mentions a two-day version for £65 adult, £32.50 child, £43.25 railcard holder. Not sure if the two-day version is new or already existed.

I know this is getting slightly off-topic, but you also used to be able to get a Heart of Wales Circular Day Ranger with an add-on extension to or from certain stations served by connecting TfW, Avanti West Coast, CrossCountry, Merseyrail and Northern trains such as Liverpool, Manchester and Crewe. Not sure if that option still exists - I can't find it on the TfW site.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I know this is getting slightly off-topic, but you also used to be able to get a Heart of Wales Circular Day Ranger with an add-on extension to or from certain stations served by connecting TfW, Avanti West Coast, CrossCountry, Merseyrail and Northern trains such as Liverpool, Manchester and Crewe. Not sure if that option still exists - I can't find it on the TfW site.

Believe they're still available, and still priced at £49.90.

 

[Kite159]

Believe they're still available, and still priced at £49.90.

That's for the Ffestiniog Round Robin ticket, not for the Heart of Wales circular ticket. Unless I'm missing something.