Travel without valid railcard

[brm98]

Good evening,

I’m looking for clarification around an incident in May where I was unable to produce a railcard during a Northern Rail journey to Deansgate.

I discovered afterwards that I’d been travelling for what could be over a year without a railcard and hadn’t realised as I hadn’t been asked to show it. I travel on a very busy service to work and back 4 days a week and inspectors rarely pass through the carriage due to overcrowding, and when they have scanned my ticket they’d never asked me to show it.

I received the attached letter and have already replied apoligising and attaching proof that I bought a new railcard on the same day as the incident last month, but I’m now trying to preempt their response and whether it’s likely they’ll come back with proof of all the other tickets i’ve bought over the last year without a valid railcard?

Thanks in advance

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@brm98. Welcome to the forum. What exactly did you say in your response to Northern?

 

[brm98]

@brm98. Welcome to the forum. What exactly did you say in your response to Northern?

I am writing with regards to the above incident on the 23rd May 2025.

I was on board a train from Horwich Parkway to Deansgate and was asked during the journey to show my railcard. I went to find it but could not locate it and was completely stumped as to why, as it had always been easily accessible alongside my ticket.

It was only upon investigating later that morning that I realised my previous railcard must have expired which would explain why I couldn’t find it. Of course I would never intentionally travel without the required railcard and made sure to purchase a new one immediately after the journey, of which I have attached proof above, to ensure that this never happens again in the future.

Please accept my sincere apologies for this, I should have realised when purchasing the ticket and have since taken the required measures to ensure this won’t happen again.

I hope you can recognise this was unintentional, and I would be grateful if you could offer advice on whether we can agree an out of court settlement for this offence?

If I can provide any additional information then please do let me know.

Kind regards,

 

[nonethewiser]

Good evening,

I’m looking for clarification around an incident in May where I was unable to produce a railcard during a Northern Rail journey to Deansgate.

I discovered afterwards that I’d been travelling for what could be over a year without a railcard and hadn’t realised as I hadn’t been asked to show it. I travel on a very busy service to work and back 4 days a week and inspectors rarely pass through the carriage due to overcrowding, and when they have scanned my ticket they’d never asked me to show it.

I received the attached letter and have already replied apoligising and attaching proof that I bought a new railcard on the same day as the incident last month, but I’m now trying to preempt their response and whether it’s likely they’ll come back with proof of all the other tickets i’ve bought over the last year without a valid railcard?

Thanks in advance

Its good you stated that you bought a new railcard. if you cooperate I don't see why they will not give you an out of court settlement. However they are entitled to prosecute you under the Regulation of Railways Act or Railway Byelaws

They will however investigate your ticket purchasing history and will most likely find other journeys with irregularities based on the fact you said you have mistakenly used the railcard for possible 1yr+. They will seek to recover this in some way.

You could create a spreadsheet working out how many journeys you made based on your usual travel and the timeframe, and then you can work out how much they may ask for as a settlement plus the £150 admin fee.

There's not much you can do now other than wait for their response and start saving.

 

[brm98]

Its good you stated that you bought a new railcard. if you cooperate I don't see why they will not give you an out of court settlement. However they are entitled to prosecute you under the Regulation of Railways Act or Railway Byelaws

They will however investigate your ticket purchasing history and will most likely find other journeys with irregularities based on the fact you said you have mistakenly used the railcard for possible 1yr+. They will seek to recover this in some way.

You could create a spreadsheet working out how many journeys you made based on your usual travel and the timeframe, and then you can work out how much they may ask for as a settlement plus the £150 admin fee.

There's not much you can do now other than wait for their response and start saving.

Thanks for the advice, the thing is I still haven’t been able to find the expired railcard and I don’t know for certain when it expired.

Obviously I’m assuming that they will tell me and from there I can try to work it out myself. If they look to reclaim total amount as apposed to the difference from what i have already paid I could be looking at upwards of £2500 which I just don’t have.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@brm98. An undiscounted Anytime Day Single between Horwich Parkway and Deansgate (if that's the usual journey) is currently £7.60. A return trip likely to be charged as 2 x singles. Was £7.30 prior to early March 2025. Could be expensive if inappropriately discounted tickets were purchased/used over an extended period of time. If you don't pay what Northern ask you to pay, by way of 'out of court settlement', assuming that they do offer you this, there's every chance they'll just take you to Court instead, where, from what you've told us, you'll end up with a court conviction.

 

[brm98]

@brm98. An undiscounted Anytime Day Single between Horwich Parkway and Deansgate (if that's the usual journey) is currently £7.60. A return trip likely to be charged as 2 x singles. Was £7.30 prior to early March 2025. Could be expensive if inappropriately discounted tickets were purchased/used over an extended period of time. If you don't pay what Northern ask you to pay, by way of 'out of court settlement', assuming that they do offer you this, there's every chance they'll just take you to Court instead, where, from what you've told us, you'll end up with a court conviction.

Would they be able to prove that the tickets were actually used as apposed to just bought? Just thinking of any possible way that I don’t end up forking out thousands of pounds that I don’t have!

 

[AlterEgo]

Would they be able to prove that the tickets were actually used as apposed to just bought? Just thinking of any possible way that I don’t end up forking out thousands of pounds that I don’t have!

They don’t need to prove anything; they either prosecute you for the one offence where they caught you red handed or you settle for that occasion and all the others.

 

[brm98]

They don’t need to prove anything; they either prosecute you for the one offence where they caught you red handed or you settle for that occasion and all the others.

Thanks. I guess I’ll wait to see how they respond and then provide an update and go from there.