Your experiences of cases on the railway where the less premium offering is superior

[Taunton]

Whenever I buy an Anytime ticket in Standard, as in the real business world who knows when the meeting will finish, and then have a less featured environment than those on Advances in First who have paid half the price. This particularly applies where I'm standing in Standard and there are empty seats in First.

 

[T-Karmel]

Roving around airport expresses, there's one in, I think, Oslo airport with a "Connect" train stopping on the way. Journey time difference is like 2 mins but it costs you just half the price of the Express train.

 

[BigCj34]

At certain times of day/week, Greater Anglia between Cambridge and London can be more pleasant than GTR, with quieter trains for not much of a journey time penalty.

Their standard class seats were comfier on the MK3's than in First, although they are mostly, if not completely, out of service. I believe the complementary snacks were discontinued as well, making it even worse value.

 

[trebor79]

Their standard class seats were comfier on the MK3's than in First, although they are mostly, if not completely, out of service. I believe the complementary snacks were discontinued as well, making it even worse value.

Mk3s are all gone. The first class seats were comfortable if you just wanted to relax and enjoy the view but useless for working as if you sat with your back against the seat back you needed gadget arms to reach your keyboard. Bagging a table seat in standard was a better bet.

Haven't sampled first class in a 745 yet but it looks pretty good.

 

[Grumpy Git]

As has been said before regarding Heathrow Express. Turn-up fare one-way £25 (plus Underground fare to Paddington) v Underground all the way (from Euston) a few weeks ago £3.10. Just allow yourself the time.

 

[James James]

Roving around airport expresses, there's one in, I think, Oslo airport with a "Connect" train stopping on the way. Journey time difference is like 2 mins but it costs you just half the price of the Express train.

Timetable for the regular trains was much less convenient last time I was there - I happened to be lucky, a few minutes later and I'd have been stuck a long time.

 

[Mikey C]

Controversial perhaps, but I'd say if you're travelling London - Birmingham then Chiltern is nicer than Avanti - and considerably cheaper in the peak!

Leaving aside the Mk 3s, while the trains are noisier, the seats on the Chiltern 168s are to me much more comfortable than those on the Pendolinos, and it's a much better view out of the window

 

[Grumpy Git]

Leaving aside the Mk 3s, while the trains are noisier, the seats on the Chiltern 168s are to me much more comfortable than those on the Pendolinos, and it's a much better view out of the window

Standard class window seat on a Pendolino is torture, particularly on a busy service where you may have someone of rather large girth sat next to you.

 

[071]

To the best of my knowledge, Grand Central’s AP tickets are less expensive than LNER’s between York/Doncaster and Kings Cross and I’d take an Adelante any day over an Azuma.

That's concerning. I took a few trips on Adelantes when they were first in service. Underwhelmed, so actively avoided them, preferring to take an HST instead.

Are we going backwards when it come to passenger comfort? I seem to remember reading that 1st class on some, probably first generation, EMU/DMU was put in the middle of a carriage as that location gave the most comfortable ride. Can't see that happening nowadays.

 

[Huntergreed]

Often on the Northern WCML Avanti Only tickets are cheaper than TPE only tickets, despite Avanti offering a fuller service (shop, full at-seat first-class service) with TPE offering a lesser service (Trolley and no full catering service in first class)

 

[xotGD]

On Chiltern, Standard Class seats are available right behind the loco, while those paying for First Class are deprived of the thrash at the back of the train.

TPE have learnt from this.

 

[fishquinn]

and it's a much better view out of the window

Just a pity that the route is dull as dishwater compared to the southern WCML, which is actually reasonably nice to look out the window from - there's no doubt in my mind that the WCML is the better route into Birmingham.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Just a pity that the route is dull as dishwater compared to the southern WCML, which is actually reasonably nice to look out the window from - there's no doubt in my mind that the WCML is the better route into Birmingham.

It's not bad if you know what you're looking for. Bordesley viaduct, Leamington viaduct, Harbury cutting, Aynho Jn (esp. on the down), Princes Risborough to Denham through the Chilterns and the Colne Valley. And then plenty of railway interest within London. I'll admit the rest is typically bland English countryside, but at least you don't have to suffer 1960s concrete bunkers..

 

[fishquinn]

It's not bad if you know what you're looking for. Leamington viaduct, Harbury cutting, Aynho Jn (esp. on the down), Princes Risborough to Denham through the Chilterns and the Colne Valley. And then plenty of railway interest within London.

Leamington viaduct and Harbury cutting are both old hat for me because I live local unfortunately. Aynho on the down I definitely agree with and Princes Risborough (more Saunderton tbf) to Beaconsfield is quite nice, particularly the open bit between Saunderton and Wycombe (and then the view of Wycombe as you approach heading south). Other than those bits it's pretty dull though and honestly feels like it takes forever.

 

[Mikey C]

Leamington viaduct and Harbury cutting are both old hat for me because I live local unfortunately. Aynho on the down I definitely agree with and Princes Risborough (more Saunderton tbf) to Beaconsfield is quite nice, particularly the open bit between Saunderton and Wycombe (and then the view of Wycombe as you approach heading south). Other than those bits it's pretty dull though and honestly feels like it takes forever.

In reality though the journey times from Moor St to Marylebone vs New St to Euston aren't much different, due to the slow slog through the suburbs of Birmingham!

 

[Mag_seven]

On Chiltern, Standard Class seats are available right behind the loco, while those paying for First Class are deprived of the thrash at the back of the train.

Indeed, anything where the traction is at the "less premium end"

 

[Bletchleyite]

Leamington viaduct and Harbury cutting are both old hat for me because I live local unfortunately. Aynho on the down I definitely agree with and Princes Risborough (more Saunderton tbf) to Beaconsfield is quite nice, particularly the open bit between Saunderton and Wycombe (and then the view of Wycombe as you approach heading south). Other than those bits it's pretty dull though and honestly feels like it takes forever.

I'd definitely say the scenery on the south WCML is far, far better, particularly the bit through the Chilterns. The windows aren't as big to enjoy it, though. The best type of unit to see it is a 350 if you've got the time (so if scenery is your thing, the least-premium option is best - Standard in a 350! )

 

[py_megapixel]

I'd definitely say the scenery on the south WCML is far, far better, particularly the bit through the Chilterns. The windows aren't as big to enjoy it, though. The best type of unit to see it is a 350 if you've got the time (so if scenery is your thing, the least-premium option is best - Standard in a 350! )

Some might prefer a Voyager operated by Avanti, which are sometimes seen on EUS-BHM-Scotland services.
What I would choose probably depends on what mood I'm in, and also cost.

Of course, some others would claim that "prefer" and "Voyager" don't belong in the same sentence

 

[samuelmorris]

Are we going backwards when it come to passenger comfort?

I think that's pretty much beyond debate. Increased regulation, both for PRM and for safety standards, has led to a marked decline in rolling stock, I'd argue since the early 2010s, but for express services people may argue much earlier.

For an example, I suppose you could argue Hull Trains 802s offering power in standard whereas LNER don't, despite being far cheaper for the same journeys - likewise GC 180s having more comfortable seats though to be honest, due to the feeling they may be about to self-destruct, I'm not honestly sure I'd rate them a superior experience than Azumas.

More local to me, I suppose you could argue that on a hot summer day, the TfL stopping service on an air-conditioned 345 (if indeed, one is operating the service) is preferable to a non-air-conditioned 321. Seating wise, however, not so much

 

[Mikey C]

I think that's pretty much beyond debate. Increased regulation, both for PRM and for safety standards, has led to a marked decline in rolling stock, I'd argue since the early 2010s, but for express services people may argue much earlier.

For an example, I suppose you could argue Hull Trains 802s offering power in standard whereas LNER don't, despite being far cheaper for the same journeys - likewise GC 180s having more comfortable seats though to be honest, due to the feeling they may be about to self-destruct, I'm not honestly sure I'd rate them a superior experience than Azumas.

More local to me, I suppose you could argue that on a hot summer day, the TfL stopping service on an air-conditioned 345 (if indeed, one is operating the service) is preferable to a non-air-conditioned 321. Seating wise, however, not so much

The original seats on the 319s and 321s are to me uncomfortably low on the floor, and the backrest too low to be of much use to rest my head, so in comparison the transverse seats on the 345 compare reasonably well!

 

[samuelmorris]

I agree, but at least it isn't like sitting on a wooden park bench

 

[Grumpy Git]

I agree, but at least it isn't like sitting on a wooden park bench

You haven't tried a 195 yet I take it?

 

[samuelmorris]

You haven't tried a 195 yet I take it?

Not a 195, but I have tried a 331. I found it like sitting on a leather couch compared to a 345 to be honest. A leather couch in a factory plant room from all the excessive noise made by the compressor and A/C, but nonetheless, far more comfortable.

 

[andythebrave]

To the best of my knowledge, Grand Central’s AP tickets are less expensive than LNER’s between York/Doncaster and Kings Cross and I’d take an Adelante any day over an Azuma.

Crikey, I've not been on an Azuma but they must be truly awful if they're not as good as that glorified bus known as an Adelante.

 

[py_megapixel]

Crikey, I've not been on an Azuma but they must be truly awful if they're not as good as that glorified bus known as an Adelante.

Oh, they're not even close to an Adelante in terms of passenger comfort. Though, I actually found the Adelantes pretty comfortable, if noisy inside.

 

[jfisher21]

Over in Vienna, you can travel from the airport to the city centre on a CAT (City Airport Train) for €12 single in 16-17 minutes, or on an ÖBB Railjet for about €4 (I'm sure it was under €4 last time I was there, actually!) in … 15-16 minutes. Different destinations in the city centre, admittedly, but Wien Mitte and Wien Hbf aren't exactly miles apart

Yes I was caught out by this when over there! Did not know the fast train to hbf existed!

 

[Grumpy Git]

The "green" Swedes charge you 120 Krone (about £10.50) on top of the fare just to use the airport railway station at Arlanda. There is no charge if you arrive by car or bus!

 

[rg177]

Yes I was caught out by this when over there! Did not know the fast train to hbf existed!

The selling point of the CAT is the ability to check one's luggage in at Wien Mitte for a number of airlines, as well as a compensation/rebooking policy if a delay in excess of 30 minutes causes you to miss your flight. Of course in arriving at Wien rather than departing, these don't apply.

 

[route101]

Often on the Northern WCML Avanti Only tickets are cheaper than TPE only tickets, despite Avanti offering a fuller service (shop, full at-seat first-class service) with TPE offering a lesser service (Trolley and no full catering service in first class)

Never tried TPE first class! If train is busy and its not too much more i suppose i would.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Never tried TPE first class! If train is busy and its not too much more i suppose i would.

It's really very nice, far classier than Avanti, though the seats aren't quite as nice.