TRIVIA - Robust ("bombproof") modern-ish buses

[MotCO]

I have often heard it said that the Volvo B10M with Alexander PS was a reliable, hardworking warhorse, only beaten by the low floor legislation. Likewise, the small Mercedes Vario with Plaxton body (and the Mercedes 810D before that) were considered "bombproof".

Can I also add the ADL Dart 11.3m with East Lancs Myllennium body originally ordered for Surrey CC's Pagasus school transport fleet, but subsequently operated by Arriva, Abellio and Southdown PSV, amongst others. Although almost 20 years old, the Southdown ones I have seen and travelled on still seem to be in very good condition.

Are there any other modern-ish buses which can be similarly labelled? (I say modern-ish to exclude old favourites such as the Routemaster, RT or RF)

Southdown PSV, Copthorne 112 LK55ADX leaving Redhill Bus Station on a 410 to Hurst Green.

Ex-First Berkshire DME43915 'Phoenix', owned by Surrey CC and used on the Ride Pegasus school bus scheme.

www.flickr.com

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[Fin447]

B7TL ALX400s, still reliable and few rattles at 15+ years old when looked after properly

 

[dodecahedron67]

B7/B9TL Gemini 1s, and B7/B8RLEs as well. Absolute machines

 

[GusB]

Are there any other modern-ish buses which can be similarly labelled? (I say modern-ish to exclude old favourites such as the Routemaster, RT or RF)

"Modern-ish" should perhaps be defined a little more clearly!

The Volvo/Alexander PS combination may be regarded as "bomb-proof", but the the B10M itself had been around for a decade before, and was an update of the venerable B58, which had a similar reputation.

 

[florence]

The 2008 era ADL Enviro400s favoured by Stagecoach Manchester could easily fall into that category; the fact that they are still in active operation with the Bee Network and being repainted as such is quite incredible considering that pre-reregulation they would be considered too old to run services tendered by TfGM.

 

[The exile]

the fact that they are still in active operation with the Bee Network and being repainted as such is quite incredible considering that pre-reregulation they would be considered too old to run services tendered by TfGM.

And a reminder of the stupidity of ruling something out on the basis of age alone! Too much of the attitude “it’s old, so it’s automatically no good around”.

 

[Magdalia]

The 2008 era ADL Enviro400s favoured by Stagecoach Manchester could easily fall into that category

Cambridge had a fleet of about 50 of these new in 2010. About 20 are still going in Cambridge with most of the remainder now working in Peterborough or Bedford. The Cambridge vehicles get some quite extreme treatment ranging from crawling along in Cambridge traffic queues to sustained periods of fast running on routes to places like Haverhill and Saffron Walden.

But they are not the oldest Stagecoach buses on the streets of Cambridge.

B7/B8RLEs as well

A few of the original B7 2009 busway single deckers are still going. Again they mix crawling along in Cambridge traffic queues with sustained periods of fast running, especially on the St Ives section of the busway.

 

[Andyh82]

Aren’t Scania Omnicities, both in single and double deck form seen as pretty robust?

Large operators always seem reluctant to let them go, and small operators like to pick them up for schools

 

[py_megapixel]

The 2008 era ADL Enviro400s favoured by Stagecoach Manchester could easily fall into that category; the fact that they are still in active operation with the Bee Network and being repainted as such is quite incredible considering that pre-reregulation they would be considered too old to run services tendered by TfGM.

No idea how they're doing mechanically but on the inside they're looking pretty knackered now. The rather dingy colour scheme favoured by Stagecoach at that time can't help.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Aren’t Scania Omnicities, both in single and double deck form seen as pretty robust?

Large operators always seem reluctant to let them go, and small operators like to pick them up for schools

Don’t know about that. Go well but known to have corrosion problems.


Surely the Optare Solo should be on the list. Stagecoach have quite a few 20 yr old examples in Devon, Kent and Cumbria.

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

Transdev in Burnley still have Volvo B10B in service, although there is a farewell weekend on 15/16 June.

 

[JD2168]

Transdev in Burnley still have Volvo B10B in service, although there is a farewell weekend on 15/16 June.

Agree about the Volvo B10BLE, some at First Sheffield on R plates outlasted B7L’s on 02 plates.

I would also add Volvo B9TL Gemini both Mark 1 & Mark 2, there are some on 07 plates in Sheffield with very little rattles on them, also add Volvo B7RLE Wright Eclipse Urban’s.

Also Stagecoach Sheffield’s Enviro 400 Hybrids seem to have been built well, going much better that similarly aged ones in Manchester & Skegness which are being withdrawn & breaking down a lot.

 

[MotCO]

Aren’t Scania Omnicities, both in single and double deck form seen as pretty robust?

The Scania Omnicity double decker being released by operators RATP and Stagecoach do seem to be snapped up quite quickly in significant numbers, so there can't be much wrong with them.

 

[mbonwick]

Can I also add the ADL Dart 11.3m with East Lancs Myllennium body originally ordered for Surrey CC's Pagasus school transport fleet, but subsequently operated by Arriva, Abellio and Southdown PSV, amongst others. Although almost 20 years old, the Southdown ones I have seen and travelled on still seem to be in very good condition.

Can the SPD/11.3m Darts really be classed as robust? They were notorious for cracked chassis, and sagging rear ends due to the amount of times the original design had been stretched.

The Scania Omnicity double decker being released by operators RATP and Stagecoach do seem to be snapped up quite quickly in significant numbers, so there can't be much wrong with them.

Cost has a lot to do with that - even brand new, the reason ELBG went for them was the signifiant cost saving vs E400s.

 

[Towers]

I can certainly confirm that at least one batch of Omnicities from 2004 were anything but robust; they were flimsy, unreliable and generally seen as a significant quality downgrade from the Volvos which preceded them! I agree that they did indeed “go well”, however!

That being said, Go South Coast seem to have an inexhaustible supply of 2008-ish deckers which form the majority of its double decker fleet, so clearly they can soldier on!

 

[MotCO]

Can the SPD/11.3m Darts really be classed as robust? They were notorious for cracked chassis, and sagging rear ends due to the amount of times the original design had been stretched.

I understand what you're saying, and would ordinarily agree with you. But I see Southdown's East Lancs models running around every day, still looking good and comfortable. Maybe they have had strengthening work done? Maybe the East Lancs body is heavily engineered to overcome the chassis's weaknesses?

 

[Geordie driver]

Do buses get refurbs now after 10 or 12 years?

They don't appear to now round here, just held together with gaffer tape to try and stop vibration.

Probably a bit old for the OPs scenario, but Bristol VRs and REs appeared to have been carved out of the finest marble by renaissance master craftsmen, miles ahead of much of the modern rubbish we get now.

 

[Busaholic]

Do buses get refurbs now after 10 or 12 years?

They don't appear to now round here, just held together with gaffer tape to try and stop vibration.

Probably a bit old for the OPs scenario, but Bristol VRs and REs appeared to have been carved out of the finest marble by renaissance master craftsmen, miles ahead of much of the modern rubbish we get now.

Isn't the truth of the matter that the huge weight of batteries and the infrastructure surrounding them, even in hybrids, is forcing the materials making up all the driver and passenger space kept to the minimum weight level by necessity now? The tail wagging the dog, so to speak. No room for craftsmanship there.

 

[Towers]

Isn't the truth of the matter that the huge weight of batteries and the infrastructure surrounding them, even in hybrids, is forcing the materials making up all the driver and passenger space kept to the minimum weight level by necessity now? The tail wagging the dog, so to speak. No room for craftsmanship there.

Very much so, yes. It’s all about making everything as lightweight as possible, has been for years. This explains the move away from the full size heavyweight single deckers from the likes of Volvo and Scania which were so popular in the late 90s and into the 2000s, and their replacement with squadrons of rattling Darts and E200s. Once upon a time the midibus had its place, long distance trunk routes invariably being graced with higher quality full sized machinery, but now very often it’s either a decker or a Dart (etc!) with little in between. Add in the delights of stop-start kit in recent years and the passenger experience is often pretty poor, with rattling and vibration coming from everywhere endlessly. One of the advantages of the electric revolution is the return of the heavyweight single decker!

 

[MotCO]

the passenger experience is often pretty poor, with rattling and vibration coming from everywhere endlessly. One of the advantages of the electric revolution is the return of the heavyweight single decker!

But even new ADL/BYD EV400s rattle over bumpy roads. You're probably right that the weight of the batteries means the chassis has to be heavy, leaving little weight allowance for passenger comforts or rattle-eliminating materials.

 

[Towers]

But even new ADL/BYD EV400s rattle over bumpy roads. You're probably right that the weight of the batteries means the chassis has to be heavy, leaving little weight allowance for passenger comforts or rattle-eliminating materials.

True! I had two recent journeys, one lengthy, on First Solent’s new Kytes, and I must say I found those to be pleasant and smooth riding. I would think that a heavy chassis can only be a help in keeping down the rattles that come through the bodyshell, plus they have substantial roof-mounted kit of some sort which I presume must require a sturdy frame?!

 

[richw]

Cummmins powered euro 2/3 Tridents.

Only thing I ever had to wrong on any was burst water Hoses. Easy fix at the roadside. A handful did combust though

 

[duncombec]

Another vote for the Volvo B7TL/ALX 400 combination mentioned in #2. Arriva Kent & Surrey have some approaching 20 years old (next Thursday, in fact!). Some can be pretty manky inside, but they still seem to "go", and are only being withdrawn at the moment if there is major mechanical failure (although who knows what may happen if we get a handful of buses from depot closures/reductions elsewhere).

Still interested to know whether current build quality really is poor, or it just has something to do with the ghastly quality of modern roads, given the "pothole crisis". Or, vice-versa, how much more audible those rattles and squeaks are now we don't have an open platform with ambient noise and a front engine!

 

[hst43102]

Volvo B7TL, of any bodywork really. Plenty still going strong with major operators and independents, most of the independent operators in my area seem to have opted for ex-Dublin bus ALX400s.
Arriva in Durham had a 51-plate B7TL with Gemini bodywork until late last year, from many journeys on it I can say that it was much less rattly and could go up hills much better than the newer E400s in their fleet.

 

[richw]

I find it incredible everyone saying Volvo B7TL… the ones I drove at a large group were anything but reliable.
When I left the company I got a leaving gift from the recovery company I’d seen them so much I was on good terms with the owner operator! On my last 10 shifts I needed towing 6 times!

 

[rg177]

When I lived in Sheffield up to 2020, First had several seemingly bombproof Renowns. I believe two were R-reg and one was W-reg. Covid service reductions and subsequent cascades basically saw them off.

The B7TL Geminis at Go North East (05 and 06 reg) seem to be running quite happily. The former lot spent many years getting hammered down the A19 on the X10!

 

[Towers]

I find it incredible everyone saying Volvo B7TL… the ones I drove at a large group were anything but reliable.
When I left the company I got a leaving gift from the recovery company I’d seen them so much I was on good terms with the owner operator! On my last 10 shifts I needed towing 6 times!

Was it a “large group” once renowned for running their buses into the ground, perchance?!

 

[renegademaster]

Isn't the ADL rattle from the all the internal fixings never being tightened properly?

 

[507021]

DAF/VDL DB250, the definition of a brick outside lavatory.

 

[richw]

Was it a “large group” once renowned for running their buses into the ground, perchance?!

Still running their buses to the ground more like!