Turnaround times at terminal stations

[telstarbox]

How are these calculated? Does it depend on the maximum length of train which can fit in the platform, or the maximum length which actually runs?

Are they longer for Intercity type services compared to Metro/all shacks runs?

Is there allowance for the driver getting through a crowd in rush hour e.g. at London terminals?

 

[iphone76]

With our company the official turn around time actually drops from 13 minutes to the minimum agreed time of 7 minutes during the peak, however, if everything is running to plan (occasionally) timetable padding means this goes up to 9 or so minutes. This is into a busy City of London terminal station on a metro service.

 

[PeterC]

SNIP
Are they longer for Intercity type services compared to Metro/all shacks runs?
/SNIP

Depends on how long it takes to unload, do any required work such as cleaning and restocking a buffet and loading waiting passengers.

 

[Ianno87]

Combination of (make up is dependent upon type of service):
-Time it technically takes to switch off train at one end, walk, switch on at other
-Unload and load passengers, including filtering on and off the platform (if constrained), likelihood of having luggage, PRMs, etc.
-Union agreements
-Allowance for length of inward run/likelihood of late arrival
-Allowance for toilets, stocking buffets, cleaning, placing reservations etc. if applicable
-How the timetable actually works out from given paths in and out of the station, and required stock workings

 

[PHILIPE]

Many have a 3 minute turn round time. The ATW Wrexham to Bidstons confuse people as they turn back at Wrexham Central before they even arrive such is the difference between Public and WTT times. 3 minutes WTT.

 

[Wirewiper]

How are these calculated? [ ... ] Is there allowance for the driver getting through a crowd in rush hour e.g. at London terminals?

"Stepping up" of crews can drastically cut down the amount of time required for turnrounds on buys Metro-style services - this is where an extra driver (and guard where applicable) stands in position so they are ready to board the train when it comes in, do the necessary and take it straight back out. The incoming crew then takes up position for the next incoming train, and so on. This is done to great effect at Bank on the Waterloo & City Line, where the sheer numbers of passengers on the platforms at peak times means that drivers would gave great difficulty making their way from one end of the train to the other.

And of course on an automatically-driven railway, a train can be reversed in the same amount of time as a normal station stop. Although it may be desirable to build in some recovery time.

 

[kentuckytony]

There is a nice visual example and explanation of "stepping up" at Elephant & Castle on the V125 video of the Bakerloo line.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

In general terms, Network Rail guidance suggests 10 mins of turnaround for every hour of journey for an inward Intercity service. So for example, an Edinburgh-Kings Cross service might take 4.5 hours, so good practice would suggest 45 minutes is an acceptable minimum turnaround before forming an outward service.

In practice many routes / termini can't support such long turnarounds. For example, Paddington has the following minimum values (passenger-passenger) for HSTs:
From Penzance/Plymouth/Paignton: 30 mins
From Exeter: 25 mins
From Taunton/Weston/Bristol: 20 mins
From Swansea: 30 mins
From Cardiff: 20 mins
From Hereford/Worcester/Oxford: 20 mins
From Oxford: 15 mins

I would say from personal experience these are particularly tight IC turnarounds - the good practice value of 10 mins per hour would suggest Cornwall should be 50+ mins. Reality is there are a finite number of platforms at Paddington.

 

[Ianno87]

"Stepping up" of crews can drastically cut down the amount of time required for turnrounds on buys Metro-style services - this is where an extra driver (and guard where applicable) stands in position so they are ready to board the train when it comes in, do the necessary and take it straight back out. The incoming crew then takes up position for the next incoming train, and so on. This is done to great effect at Bank on the Waterloo & City Line, where the sheer numbers of passengers on the platforms at peak times means that drivers would gave great difficulty making their way from one end of the train to the other.

And of course on an automatically-driven railway, a train can be reversed in the same amount of time as a normal station stop. Although it may be desirable to build in some recovery time.

There aren't many main line (non-LU) examples where a step back driver is used, with the timetabled turnround time planned solely on this basis. It's usually just used to spun a service back in less than the normal time in the event of a late arrival. E.g. most GN services at King's Cross are planned on at least 8 minutes based on a single driver, but can be spun in as little as 3 with a change of driver.

The only example I can think of is the St Ives branch in the summer months.

LU examples are common - Brixton, Walthamstow and Bank are the obvious examples.