Twitter-the train driver's enemy

[bezzer]

Passengers know no end of uses for Twitter. As a driver if you wanted to know why there was a delay look on twitter. Then you will know everything.

But now Twitter is being used more and more to report driver's.

The other day a driver was reported on Twitter for being on his mobile phone. Actually he was on the GSMR talking to the signaller!!

Another driver was hauled in before managers for not making any announcements. Yet on the same train a tweeter complimented the driver on his announcements.

A driver was reported for passing a signal at danger when in fact he had been authorised to pass it at danger.

It seems like people have nothing better to do then tweet but what is worse the manager' stake them seriously and make assumptions before investigating.

What was once a good way for TOC's to keep passengers up to date (and staff for that matter) is now becoming a weapon for checking that driver's are doing their job properly. Will it go too far one day?

 

[jopsuk]

you can't stop the passengers tweeting. So what you need is the managers to, without disrespecting the passengers, take a more sceptical stance to such reports.

 

[A-driver]

Unfortunately twitter allows people to immediately vent their frustration without thinking about it. Pre twitter you would need to wait until you got home to write a letter. By the time you have done that you would have had time to think it through and realise that it isn't worth it.

I saw a tweet about me a couple of weeks back but no managers have mentioned anything. I went into a slide due to poor adhesion approaching a station. I threw it in emergency and stopped a few coaches short of the platform. I then took the brake off a crawled into the station and it was so slippy I struggled to get above 15. When in the platform I spoke to the signaller and then carried on and made an announcement at that point. A tweet was sent in claiming I couldn't be bothered to tell people what was happening. Infact the last thing you should be doing when trying to keep control of a train in such conditions is talking to the passengers! I made an annoumcemt when safe to do so and at a time that caused the least possible delay.

Another of our drivers was accused of being drunk on twitter. The reason for this wild and serious allegation? Well apparently he opened the doors the wrong side at Finsbury park. Being accused of being drunk as a train driver is very distressing and serious. The true story of that incident was that they altered the platform from down fast to down slow at the last minute. Some passengers obviously didn't hear and as the down slow is a double sided platform they were all standing on the side of the train where the doors remain shut. So the driver did nothing wrong whatsoever and yet was still publicly accused of being drunk!

To be honest I find many staff complaints on twitter to be pretty funny. Most evidently don't have anything better to do with their time. I just wish sometimes the twitter operators at TOCs would turn around and challenge some if these idiots, not just give the standard "thanks for the info, I'll pass it onto their manager" style response. There was even a poster on here a while back stating in a thread that he reports via twitter any drivers he sees with a foot up on the dashboard. When I asked him to explain why it is such a problem he was unable to suggest any reasons.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

There are so many false positives on Twitter that pretty much anything the passengers say gets taken with a grain of salt. I've certainly got no fear of being grassed up on it.

 

[Captain Chaos]

I got complained about on FB yesterday for not walking through my train after Guildford despite:

A. Walking through before Guildford.
B. Making very regular announcements regarding our delay etc, etc throughout the entire journey.
C. The fact that two peak time train loadings boarded at Guildford and beyond rendering a ticket check impossible (full and standing throughout, 1st de-classified and people were left behind). I'm not exactly slim. But it simply wasn't realistic to do so.

Apparently I was "cowering in the back rather than face my angry customers like we always do". Bear in mind that the last time I was very late (1 hour and 15 minutes at peak time in the morning), I spent the majority of the time in the carriages and only went to the back to make an announcement or speak to the driver for any updates etc.

Of course the above is irrelevant. I'm a coward and can't face these people. I also know for a fact that this same person will never actually say anything to your face. I have walked through one of his delayed services once when he was on board and he said nothing to me. He did however go immediately onto FB to complain about the delay and demand compensation etc, etc. I really do feel sorry for these people, I really do. They must sit there trying to think of anything to complain about. It is irrelevant how perfect a job you do. They will still complain.

It got removed anyway. He started ranting that when I check his ticket I click my fingers to gain his attention (I don't, because I have never been able to do it in my life for some reason) because he has his headphones on and is reading a book and therefore doesn't pay attention to me. You wonder why you bother sometimes...

 

[trentside]

I pointed out on a previous Twitter thread, that a lot of TOCs seem to reply to abusive tweets with a polite "Sorry, we'll pass on your comments" type response when what they should actually be saying is "We don't respond to abuse". People get a positive response from being abusive on the internet will then continue to use that approach to get a satisfactory response, probably only on the internet (as I doubt many of them would dare in real life) but by giving them satisfaction only encourages more.

Personally, I think that Twitter should be information only - with no direct replies, but that's not really social media in most people's eyes!

 

[chris89]

I pointed out on a previous Twitter thread, that a lot of TOCs seem to reply to abusive tweets with a polite "Sorry, we'll pass on your comments" type response when what they should actually be saying is "We don't respond to abuse". People get a positive response from being abusive on the internet will then continue to use that approach to get a satisfactory response, probably only on the internet (as I doubt many of them would dare in real life) but by giving them satisfaction only encourages more.

Personally, I think that Twitter should be information only - with no direct replies, but that's not really social media in most people's eyes!

Have to agree with that. When ever give Positive or even rarer negative feedback, i will go through TOC's websites etc.

Twitter can be good i imagine, but a lot of people will use that or other social media to complain and make accusations as posted by Drivers/ Other staff members on here.

Hell i've been in-directly commented and bitched about for disagreeing with posts on pre-cleaned out Train Simulator steam community threads. By going on something about 'link' this is a interesting read or 'really?'

Chris

 

[175001]

Trial by twitter is too common these days. Has to be stopped.

 

[Johnny_w]

I think the TOC's are damned if you do and damned if you don't.

However I would like too see a more blunt approach to idocay on any social media. Personally I've always gone direct too the company rather than facebook (I don't tweet, maybe I should!)

To the guard earlier who knows the passenger I'm not sure how I would handle that personally - probably not well!

JW

 

[O L Leigh]

Twitter isn't the train driver's enemy, it's the twits that use it who think they know better. Trial by Twitter is no different than trial by Facebook or even trial by forum.

Where have we seen that before...?

O L Leigh

 

[Harlesden]

TOC's are at fault here.
All they have to do is display a prominent message on both their Twitter and Facebook advising that complaints about members of staff should be communicated via the website only as doing it publicly is not considered appropriate or acceptable.
I am a FB fan but have never yet Twittered.

 

[Captain Chaos]

I think the TOC's are damned if you do and damned if you don't.

However I would like too see a more blunt approach to idocay on any social media. Personally I've always gone direct too the company rather than facebook (I don't tweet, maybe I should!)

To the guard earlier who knows the passenger I'm not sure how I would handle that personally - probably not well!

JW

You just have to ignore it and smile to yourself knowing that the vast majority of people will have the decency to at least raise any issues directly with you and actually discuss things rather than resort to the pettiness that often gets put on there by the same, regular people. I have always found it odd that it's always the same people, over and over again who bang on about the large volume of negative stuff left on there. Most of it has been left by themselves! Don't get me wrong, there are some genuine grievances on there which need to be addressed. But the minority of constant posters sometimes seem no better than school playground bullies. I find it all slightly depressing. So why read it you may ask? Because sometimes I may try and help with a query. But that's it. I only ever post anything if I feel it will not evolve into an argument. That can often be tricky!

This guy is not the only person I see regularly who posts on their either. The best thing to do is get on with the job in hand as best as you can. You cannot please everyone.

 

[chris11256]

Only thing I've ever used twitter for is to report carriage faults. Dont think I've ever complained about a driver.
Regarding abusive tweets, I understand c2c(line I commute on) pay no attention to abusive tweeters and usually block them.

 

[alwaystouchout]

Trial by twitter is too common these days. Has to be stopped.

Couldn't agree more. Just look at when a dreadful case comes to court and suddenly everyone's a legal expert and the cyberjurors are out en force.

 

[Crossover]

I don't use Twitter, but one of my friends from uni, who is now a commuter in Manchester, has posted a number of times on Facebook (albeit not publicly I don't think) about Northern.

A couple of the latest ones was about how he had missed a connection (short, unbooked one, I believe) as the driver was crawling into every station...this at the start of leaf fall season.
Another being how the driver was running very slowly through green lights - again, in leaf fall season, but who knows whether previous caution signals or other issues came into play.

Of course, the GB public always know best.....:roll:

 

[GodAtum]

I used to tweet every day about my commute. Most times it was all OK but i did enjoy venting my anger when delayed.

 

[DarloRich]

you can't stop the passengers tweeting. So what you need is the managers to, without disrespecting the passengers, take a more sceptical stance to such reports.

No – As a manager you need to quickly investigate and easily dismiss those complaints that are mendacious, incorrect or simply time wasting. That said you need to support your staff and defend them at all times.

 

[jon0844]

I've Tweeted companies many times, nearly always with a positive response. I try to be constructive and polite, always. Don't Tweet anything you wouldn't say to that person directly.

I've got something going on with FCC at the moment, with regards to their new parking system at Potters Bar which is flawed for a number of reasons (the concept of using ANPR is fine, but the company running it is awful - maybe something for a future thread on here).

I've been complaining to FCC as I can't get any response from Dash, and initially FCC did try and palm me off by saying they didn't run the car park and so it was nothing to do with them. I pointed out, again politely, that this company is the face of FCC when you park, so their actions make FCC look bad. Then they agreed to look into matters, although so far it's still ongoing.

I had no qualms about reporting two RPIs with their feet on the seats talking about how the riots were good and PC Keith Blakelock was right to be killed - because that was highly offensive. What's more, they knew people could hear and must have been doing it to wind us up - even more so when they then decided it was probably about time they got on with their job and got up. In that case, I didn't have any problem taking a photo of one of them, and only wish I'd filmed it all.

Despite this, I never expected FCC to say what happened to them, although I've never seen them again in the two years since this happened. I agree that FCC and others must be careful what they say, and should adopt the US approach of not engaging with people that are rude, full stop (or is that period?!).

However, for some things, I'll only communicate via a private message. The only time I'd identify a service in public would be if it was to enquire about a delay, congratulate a member of staff, or report a fault with the train (faulty doors, trim hanging off and the many other things I've used Twitter for to hopefully help get things fixed quicker).

I'd say a good 30-40% of my Tweets are positive, as you can't just use something to moan. Twitter should reflect what anyone is saying or thinking (that was the idea) and so if all you do is moan, that rather reflects on your personality - and not in a good way.

FCC has since referred me to a site they run where you can nominate people for awards, although I suspect they didn't consider the fact that I can't nominate a driver without knowing their name - and asking a driver for his/her name would quite likely make them panic given what some passengers would do!

 

[swj99]

TOC's are at fault here.
All they have to do is display a prominent message on both their Twitter and Facebook advising that complaints about members of staff should be communicated via the website only...........

Have to agree there.

I'm surprised at the amount of inappropriate rubbish that gets spouted on social media. People hurl abuse, and make so many unsubstantiated allegations and assumptions, that it's a wonder more of the people who make the comments don't get sued for defamation, or prosecuted under the Malicious Communications Act.

 

[martybabes]

There was even a poster on here a while back stating in a thread that he reports via twitter any drivers he sees with a foot up on the dashboard. When I asked him to explain why it is such a problem he was unable to suggest any reasons.

While it wasn't me who made the comment earlier, I don't think it creates a very good impression for a driver or, indeed, anybody to have their foot up on the dashboard. It shows a very casual approach to his responsibilities, and one can only wonder whether he discharges that responsibility with the same casual, if not cavalier, manner. After all, appearances count for a lot, and all the more so these days when it appears appearance has very little importance in the minds of many.

So, if we are now content to accept these casual erosions to our hitherto high standards of appearance and presentation, would you like:
your heart surgeon to appear unshaven;
your local police officer to have hippy length hair;
your bus driver to be wearing his uniform cap back-to-front;
your doctor to be lying back in his chair, his feet on his desk, while appearing to listen to your medical history?

I know it is all a question of balance and degree BUT...



...where do you draw the line?

 

[GodAtum]

I never tweet companies directly, just am rude to them on my own twitter lol.

 

[Temple Meads]

would you like:
your heart surgeon to appear unshaven;
your local police officer to have hippy length hair;
your bus driver to be wearing his uniform cap back-to-front;
your doctor to be lying back in his chair, his feet on his desk, while appearing to listen to your medical history?

As long as they were friendly and did their job in the correct manner, I really couldn't care less.

 

[DarloRich]

While it wasn't me who made the comment earlier, I don't think it creates a very good impression for a driver or, indeed, anybody to have their foot up on the dashboard. It shows a very casual approach to his responsibilities, and one can only wonder whether he discharges that responsibility with the same casual, if not cavalier, manner. After all, appearances count for a lot, and all the more so these days when it appears appearance has very little importance in the minds of many.

So, if we are now content to accept these casual erosions to our hitherto high standards of appearance and presentation, would you like:
your heart surgeon to appear unshaven;
your local police officer to have hippy length hair;
your bus driver to be wearing his uniform cap back-to-front;
your doctor to be lying back in his chair, his feet on his desk, while appearing to listen to your medical history?

I know it is all a question of balance and degree BUT...



...where do you draw the line?

Typical lawyer - do any of the situations presented impact on the ability of the person concerned to discharge their job safely? Do any of the examples given breach any safety or regulatory arrangements? Compare that with the situation of the lawyer helping himself to funds from the client account or the doctor who cuts out the healthy kidney. Which is worse?

Consider also that the driver with his foot up may be relieving cramp or ensuring his circulation and muscles are in good order enabling him to discharge his duties as he has no opportunity to leave his place of work mid shift, other than at an approved break location, to exercise or relieve himself.

 

[notadriver]

While it wasn't me who made the comment earlier, I don't think it creates a very good impression for a driver or, indeed, anybody to have their foot up on the dashboard. It shows a very casual approach to his responsibilities, and one can only wonder whether he discharges that responsibility with the same casual, if not cavalier, manner. After all, appearances count for a lot, and all the more so these days when it appears appearance has very little importance in the minds of many.

So, if we are now content to accept these casual erosions to our hitherto high standards of appearance and presentation, would you like:
your heart surgeon to appear unshaven;
your local police officer to have hippy length hair;
your bus driver to be wearing his uniform cap back-to-front;
your doctor to be lying back in his chair, his feet on his desk, while appearing to listen to your medical history?

I know it is all a question of balance and degree BUT...



...where do you draw the line?

Train drivers are not customer facing once they are in the cab of their train. It is quite difficult to see them at all and they have the same privacy as Airline pilots behind a locked door. Passengers on board cannot see what they are doing and unlike on the buses there is no cctv aimed at the driver.

 

[A-driver]

While it wasn't me who made the comment earlier, I don't think it creates a very good impression for a driver or, indeed, anybody to have their foot up on the dashboard. It shows a very casual approach to his responsibilities, and one can only wonder whether he discharges that responsibility with the same casual, if not cavalier, manner. After all, appearances count for a lot, and all the more so these days when it appears appearance has very little importance in the minds of many.

So, if we are now content to accept these casual erosions to our hitherto high standards of appearance and presentation, would you like:
your heart surgeon to appear unshaven;
your local police officer to have hippy length hair;
your bus driver to be wearing his uniform cap back-to-front;
your doctor to be lying back in his chair, his feet on his desk, while appearing to listen to your medical history?

I know it is all a question of balance and degree BUT...



...where do you draw the line?

Firstly I don't want to restart that debate as it is taking the thread too far off topic and I did slightly regret dragging that up after posting but I think it highlights the point I was making.

Secondly I don't have a problem with any of those points you raised. As long as they do their job properly I am happy with it. Considering train drivers can spend 5 hours sitting in the cab without a single break stopping at stations every few minutes and remaining fully focused on the job I would certainly rate driver comfort way above any impressions it creates. I am way better at my job and safer doing it when I'm comfortable than when uncomfortable. If I have been sitting upright with 2 feet on the floor for 4 and a half hours and have a stiff leg or am feeling very uncomfortable and desperate to get out of the chair then I think it far more professional for me to find a way of sitting comfortably and rid myself of the distraction.

As long as I have full control of my train and am concentrating I see no problem with how I sit and believe it says more about the complainers than it does about me or any casual attitude.

I can't see how a heart surgeons facial hair or a policeman a hair style would affect their ability to do their job. The only people who may be put off by them are those with a non liberal view of things like that who believe a professional should be clean cut with a sharp suit etc.

Id also point out that the reason I raised that here was to show people using twitter to stock their noses in where it isn't needed and to make complaints with no grounding. I assume the tube driver he saw with a foot up didn't crash the train or kill anyone but got him to his destination safely. If I had open heart surgery and the op went smoothly and I recovered well I wouldn't see any need to tweet the NHS and complain that the surgeon operating on me hadn't shaved properly...would you in all honesty?

 

[KA4C]

...where do you draw the line?

By using managerial judgement

 

[martybabes]

The whole point of a forum is discussion.

And I can see that, from what I wrote earlier, it has generated an opportunity for us to consider our prejudices (should we have any) and our preconceptions. Quite often the choices we make are based on things we can't quite put our finger on (and appearance and first impressions may well be two of those), or maybe they are completely random. Perhaps there are some sub-conscious influences that move us in one direction or another.

Taking the pilots' analogy a little further, think about how reassured you would feel if his (or her) initial PA announcement was delivered in such a way that you felt a little less confident about his flying ability. How you feel is then influenced by what you hear. Applying that to the train driver who appears to be lazing in his cab rather than being attentive to his duties, that too has the capacity to influence passengers.

Now, all this is not intended to be a criticism of airline pilots, train drivers or forum users. It is intended to make us think about ourselves, and how we react to and judge situations. After all, an absence of knowledge or understanding has never stopped us from expressing an opinion before!

 

[A-driver]

The whole point of a forum is discussion.

And I can see that, from what I wrote earlier, it has generated an opportunity for us to consider our prejudices (should we have any) and our preconceptions. Quite often the choices we make are based on things we can't quite put our finger on (and appearance and first impressions may well be two of those), or maybe they are completely random. Perhaps there are some sub-conscious influences that move us in one direction or another.

Taking the pilots' analogy a little further, think about how reassured you would feel if his (or her) initial PA announcement was delivered in such a way that you felt a little less confident about his flying ability. How you feel is then influenced by what you hear. Applying that to the train driver who appears to be lazing in his cab rather than being attentive to his duties, that too has the capacity to influence passengers.

Now, all this is not intended to be a criticism of airline pilots, train drivers or forum users. It is intended to make us think about ourselves, and how we react to and judge situations. After all, an absence of knowledge or understanding has never stopped us from expressing an opinion before!

I'm not disagreeing with you but it's not something that is going to change how I sit in the cab.

If anyone feels I am not being professional because I have a foot up then they don't have to get on my train. By the same token most people believe that we are doing an easy job which a chimp could be trained to do and many think trains are pretty much automatic anyway so I fail to see how a foot up will have much impact.

As I say, when I am spending 8 hours a day in the train cab I will put my comfort and subsequent ability to perform my job well above what people may think of my appearance. Before I joined the railway I regularly saw train drivers with feet up and far from seeing any problem with it I saw it as a sign that train drivers are human beings and are obviously able to do their job confidently if they can do it with a foot up.

But I still don't see it altering the fact that grassing a driver up on twitter for appearance is not needed and dosnt paint the complainant in a good light...

 

[BrownE]

I'm a fair person...

I will tweet positively and negatively about staff. Based on fact. Most TOCs completely ignore the negative, so I write to the TOC concerned. This is always far worse for an employee. A 140 char tweet normally just says "X at Y needs additional training in Z". I sent a TOC a tweet like that, they said I must write to customer services. That resulted in the member of staff being removed from a specific duty and £25 in RTVs for me. That's because my 140char tweet became 1400 words about someone's incompetence.

You can decide which is worse, but it was definitely the latter wasn't it.

 

[A-driver]

I'm a fair person...

I will tweet positively and negatively about staff. Based on fact. Most TOCs completely ignore the negative, so I write to the TOC concerned. This is always far worse for an employee. A 140 char tweet normally just says "X at Y needs additional training in Z". I sent a TOC a tweet like that, they said I must write to customer services. That resulted in the member of staff being removed from a specific duty and £25 in RTVs for me. That's because my 140char tweet became 1400 words about someone's incompetence.

You can decide which is worse, but it was definitely the latter wasn't it.

And what do you base your criticism on? Sorry but it's one thing to make a complaint but sending a patronising tweet that says 'this guy needs to be trained at how to do his job ' is exactly what winds is up-what right have you to know what training someone needs.

As I say, complaining is one thing but taking a patronising attitude is out of order, as is the glee you seem to express at getting a member if staff removed from their job. I'm also intrigued how you know they were removed as that isn't normally discussed with the comaplainent and why you think a written con mainly is worse for the employer?