Around a week or so ago, I was travelling from French Gate to meadow hall but didn’t know the rail company. I used a ticket for under 18s South Yorkshire travel on all modes of transport and I have a valid travel pass to use it, however, when the ticket checker came, he asked for a pass, which I forgot, then led to me giving details such as name address, age. Looking online says i can receive a penalty fine but I haven’t received anything in the post for over a week . One of the inspectors said something about a report but I have no idea as I rarely use the train to travel. The inspector took a photo of the ticket I used and I gave all correct details, yet I haven’t received a follow up, please can I get help on this matter as I’m unsure and can legally get a waive if I prove I had a valid pass if I have been fined
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Unsure about penalty fine
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Papyrus
Member
If you have a valid railcard but didn’t carry it on you on this occasion, you should be given an opportunity to show the railcard you had and that was valid at the time and that should be the end of the matter.
Please note that after the first time (or first few, I can’t recall) the railway company will stop allowing you that opportunity and could lawfully prosecute you for a strict liability offence (ie your intention is irrelevant) so advisable to ensure the mistake isn’t repeated.
Please note that after the first time (or first few, I can’t recall) the railway company will stop allowing you that opportunity and could lawfully prosecute you for a strict liability offence (ie your intention is irrelevant) so advisable to ensure the mistake isn’t repeated.
Thank you very much, just been confused as I haven’t had to prove the card yet and have received no updates, so is it safe to presume that they’re letting it off just this time?
Welcome to the forum!
It is an offence in the UK to fail to present a valid ticket for travel when asked by an authorised person. As you could not produce a pass to accompany your ticket (which is required to make it valid for travel), your details will now have been passed on to the prosecutions department at the relevant train company.
You will receive a letter in the post (the train company has up to 6 months to send this and start proceedings). When you do receive this, do post a copy on here (with personal details redacted) and we can assist you in how to respond.
In the meantime, it is important we gather some details related to the incident.
Can you confirm:
1) What journey did you make? (I’m presuming you are referring to the Frenchgate centre in Doncaster?)
2) Doncaster to Meadowhall is severed by both Transpennine Express and Northern, which train company did you travel with?
3) What did you say to the inspector?
The pass I presume you are referring to (the ZOOM pass for 16-18 travel in South Yorkshire) offers 50% off Northern tickets but no discount off Transpennine tickets. That said, it is still a condition of the pass that you must buy tickets before boarding.
I’ve tried to find the terms and conditions of this online but they won’t load. I’m presuming that it may be the case that these have the same T’s and C’s as railcards. If this is the case, you may (no guarantee) be let off if you can prove that you have a valid pass as a gesture of goodwill (this is generally done on the first occasion you forgot the card as a gesture of goodwill, but is not a legal requirement).
Papyrus
Member
Apologies, I read the OP as referring to a forgotten Railcard (to accompany a ticket) as opposed to forgetting a local concession season ticket that replaced a ticket, in which case the terms of that I’m not familiar with.
I traveled from Frenchgate in Doncaster centre to meadow hall.
I believe it was northern rail but I didn’t pay much attention.
After he showed a badge, I responded to every question correctly, saying my name and address and date of birth. There was 2 inspectors and when my friend asked the other if I was getting fined, he said no and that a report was being made. I bought the day pass 20 minutes before boarding and the pass says for under 18s travel. And I believe northern rail do offer a waive if it’s your first forgotten occasion of the year
It was a forgotten rail card and I used a pass I bought online that was valid for 24 hours
Just for clarification purposes, can you confirm the name of the pass which you bought? I presumed it was one of these:
Live Well Barnsley | Travel South Yorkshire - Zoom 16 - 18 Travel Pass
www.livewellbarnsley.co.uk
But as you’ve said you bought it before departure, I’m now just wanting to make sure.
Also, can you confirm you are under 18 and entitled to use this pass?
Yeah, my passport states I’m 16 and I have 2 zoom cards for under 16s and 16-18s which are both valid at the minuteJust for clarification purposes, can you confirm the name of the pass which you bought? I presumed it was one of these:
Live Well Barnsley | Travel South Yorkshire - Zoom 16 - 18 Travel Pass
But as you’ve said you bought it before departure, I’m now just wanting to make sure.
Also, can you confirm you are under 18 and entitled to use this pass?
JBuchananGB
Established Member
I hacked the Zoom 16-18 Pass website to get the correct link for the Ts&Cs
The Getabout+ Day ticket is explained
travelsouthyorkshire.com
The Getabout+ Day ticket is explained
Ticket details - Travel South Yorkshire
Get departure times, plan a journey and find tickets and passes for bus, tram, train and tram train travel.
travelsouthyorkshire.com
The photo is from the first bus travel app
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I have 2 passes for under 16 and 16-18, the under 16 pass expires on 31st July 2023. I bought a getabout+ day for South Yorkshire which allows you to travel on train. The pass costed me £4.50 and I only used it once on the train, which a 1 use ticket would’ve only costed £3.50
Attachments
Yeah, I didn’t have my card and they said they were submitting a report and 1 officer stated that I wouldn’t be getting fined but rather something about a “report”. But online stated I’m liable for a fine and that I can appeal it, but you’re supposed to get the notice soon after and it’s been around 10 days
JBuchananGB
Established Member
It is becoming clearer. This is similar to a holder of a 16-17 Railcard having bought a discounted ticket, but forgotten to bring the Railcard with them on the journey. There is a general rule that in that case, although a ticket inspector will make a report about it, the passenger can respond to the report providing a copy of the valid railcard, and the train company will take no further action. This is allowed just once per year.
In this case what you need to do is wait until you receive the letter from the train company, and then prepare a reply explaining that you bought the Getabout Day+ ticket, because you have a valid "Zoom 16-18 Pass", and send them a copy of the pass.
You can get more help in this forum if you upload a copy of the letter when you get it (with personal details blacked out), and also you can post here a draft of your intended response, and people will help you get it exactly right.
In this case what you need to do is wait until you receive the letter from the train company, and then prepare a reply explaining that you bought the Getabout Day+ ticket, because you have a valid "Zoom 16-18 Pass", and send them a copy of the pass.
You can get more help in this forum if you upload a copy of the letter when you get it (with personal details blacked out), and also you can post here a draft of your intended response, and people will help you get it exactly right.
Thank you for the help, I just assumed they would follow up soon after the incident. Does the report just mean that they confirm you could access the discount that I used, which when proven, the case would be closed.
If this is the first time, then this is the most likely outcome yes.
They would be within their rights to pursue a prosecution, but generally you are allowed to avoid this on the first instance of forgetting your pass each year.
Wouldn’t they pursue a £50 penalty fine initially instead of prosecution? It seems a bit harsh considering I paid for a pass with intention to pay (and before boarding), and technically overpayed as I ended up having to get a lift home.
I agree that it seems harsh in this instance, but it is important to note that there is no legal entitlement to a penalty fare, and a train company is permitted to pursue a prosecution following any instance of fare evasion.
I’m confident that, upon providing your pass, that should be the end of the matter in this instance. Just make sure in future you have your pass with you before purchasing a ticket, as the option to resolve in this way won’t be open to you again this year unfortunately.
Thank you for the advice, I will make sure to hold the pass to negate situations like this in the future. It was an honest mistake as it’s the first time I’ve used the train outside.
1)Also what if they don’t send a report and leave the situation?
2) What if the report gets lost in the mail or something of sorts?
JBuchananGB
Established Member
It is better that the ticket inspector decided to submit a report, not to issue a Penalty Fare, because when you receive the letter from the company you will be able to respond with an explanation, which will probably close the case. If the inspector had issued a penalty fare you would have had a more formal and complicated appeal process to go through, which as far as I know, does not make the allowance for a forgotten railcard once per year. Be aware that the train company is processing hundreds of these reports and it can take several weeks before you receive the letter from them.
If you don’t hear within 6 months, you can assume the matter is closed and they have decided not to pursue it.
This shouldn’t happen (and if it does and escalates without your knowledge, you will be able to declare this and should be given another opportunity to resolve the matter).
The only risk here is if you have changed address recently, in which case it is very important to get all mail redirected.
Then I should be fine to receive it, just making sure I know of all situations just in case something happens.
Fawkes Cat
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Welcome to the forum!
As long as you
- had the right sort of railcard for the ticket that you bought and
- you haven't done this before in the past year
then this should be fairly straightforward. There's an arrangement that if you forget to carry your railcard then as long as you had the right ticket then you won't be in trouble for the first time you do it each year. So as long as you haven't done this before, the railway should let you off as long as you can prove that you did have the right Railcard.
As the letter says, 'If you were reported for failing to carry your railcard with you, please provide a copy of the Railcard'. So take a picture of the Railcard, showing all the important bits (your name, your picture (if the railcard has one) and the expiry date) and send that to the email address given. Include the reference (the bit where it says 'Our reference' on the letter) in the title of the email so that it can be passed on to whoever is looking at your case and it would be good to write a short, polite note explaining why you are emailing them.
As long as you
- had the right sort of railcard for the ticket that you bought and
- you haven't done this before in the past year
then this should be fairly straightforward. There's an arrangement that if you forget to carry your railcard then as long as you had the right ticket then you won't be in trouble for the first time you do it each year. So as long as you haven't done this before, the railway should let you off as long as you can prove that you did have the right Railcard.
As the letter says, 'If you were reported for failing to carry your railcard with you, please provide a copy of the Railcard'. So take a picture of the Railcard, showing all the important bits (your name, your picture (if the railcard has one) and the expiry date) and send that to the email address given. Include the reference (the bit where it says 'Our reference' on the letter) in the title of the email so that it can be passed on to whoever is looking at your case and it would be good to write a short, polite note explaining why you are emailing them.
Haywain
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Showing all of the railcard, including the photocard, not just the 'important bits'.
Fawkes Cat
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I've asked for your two threads to be merged - it'll be easier for us to keep track of what you've asked and what comments have been made!
In the meantime, I think you're asking what you should do as you hold two Railcards (I'm guessing a 16-17 card and a 16-25 one). The easy answer is to send pictures of both cards. But if you can remember which card you bought the ticket against, then send pictures of that card.
(Edited twice to correct typos)
In the meantime, I think you're asking what you should do as you hold two Railcards (I'm guessing a 16-17 card and a 16-25 one). The easy answer is to send pictures of both cards. But if you can remember which card you bought the ticket against, then send pictures of that card.
(Edited twice to correct typos)
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