Vauxhall station

[MontyP]

Apologies if this has been covered before, just wondering whether anyone had any views on what can be done to relieve overcrowding at Vauxhall station? The improvements to the Victoria Line seem to have made the interchange from SWT even more popular, meaning that in peak hours it can take several minutes to get up or down the stairs to/from platforms 7/8. The platforms as a consequence can become dangerously overcrowded, particularly if there are any disruptions on SWT suburban services (which is a regular occurrence in the evenings especially). The stairs are narrow and steep, and even the newer of the pair of staircases doesn't cope with the volume of passengers.

Given that Crossrail 2 (which I assume will relieve the pressure on interchange) is 15 years away, what can be done in the meantime to improve the situation? Is there any possibility of new staircases to/from the platforms, or a more direct link down to the underground platforms to avoid the tunnel into the LU ticket hall.

The overcrowding on the escalators to the Victoria Line is a subject for a different forum!

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Monty P asking questions about the station just round the corner from The Oval?

England recall then Mr Panesar?

 

[RichmondCommu]

I love Monty P to bits but he needs to get his life sorted out away from the cricket pitch if he is to get his career back on track.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Apologies if this has been covered before, just wondering whether anyone had any views on what can be done to relieve overcrowding at Vauxhall station? The improvements to the Victoria Line seem to have made the interchange from SWT even more popular, meaning that in peak hours it can take several minutes to get up or down the stairs to/from platforms 7/8. The platforms as a consequence can become dangerously overcrowded, particularly if there are any disruptions on SWT suburban services (which is a regular occurrence in the evenings especially). The stairs are narrow and steep, and even the newer of the pair of staircases doesn't cope with the volume of passengers.

Given that Crossrail 2 (which I assume will relieve the pressure on interchange) is 15 years away, what can be done in the meantime to improve the situation? Is there any possibility of new staircases to/from the platforms, or a more direct link down to the underground platforms to avoid the tunnel into the LU ticket hall.

The overcrowding on the escalators to the Victoria Line is a subject for a different forum!

Simple solution is to remove some services, such as Guildford & Woking services, so they go back to what they used to be Waterloo - Clapham, if timetabled correctly a simple change at Clapham and a 3' wait on the same platform, would barely make any difference to the journey time to Vauxhall, as well as giving any congestion on the stairwells & lifts a chance to clear.

 

[Matt Taylor]

Spreading the same number of passengers over less trains is more likely to increase peak congestion on the stairs though surely?

 

[swt_passenger]

The current project now known simply as "Waterloo" (all the international terminal stuff) also includes certain capacity works at Vauxhall and Surbiton. At Vauxhall this is described as 'additional stairs from platform to subway".

Source is the 'post Hendy report' CP5 enhancement plans draft.

Nothing on the local planning website yet, but it may not need an application if it is entirely within railway operational areas.

 

[Midmat]

I read something a while ago (can't remember where sorry!!) that they were investigating building a new platform alongside the down slow line and would use current platform 7/8 for the up slow only. That would be a significant help in reducing conflicting flows on the stairs as well as more room on the platforms.

These weren't definite plans though so no idea when they might happen or even if they are still planned!

 

[Bald Rick]

I read something a while ago (can't remember where sorry!!) that they were investigating building a new platform alongside the down slow line and would use current platform 7/8 for the up slow only. That would be a significant help in reducing conflicting flows on the stairs as well as more room on the platforms.

These weren't definite plans though so no idea when they might happen or even if they are still planned!

Not sure who 'they' were, but it certainly isn't in any plans now.

 

[Ianno87]

Simple solution is to remove some services, such as Guildford & Woking services, so they go back to what they used to be Waterloo - Clapham, if timetabled correctly a simple change at Clapham and a 3' wait on the same platform, would barely make any difference to the journey time to Vauxhall, as well as giving any congestion on the stairwells & lifts a chance to clear.

But create more of a congestion problem at Clapham Junction instead (where there are already more than enough people getting on and off trains as it is)...

 

[swt_passenger]

I read something a while ago (can't remember where sorry!!) that they were investigating building a new platform alongside the down slow line and would use current platform 7/8 for the up slow only. That would be a significant help in reducing conflicting flows on the stairs as well as more room on the platforms.

These weren't definite plans though so no idea when they might happen or even if they are still planned!

That did come up some time ago, but I thought that was just a suggestion by a forum member for something that could theoretically be done, and nothing official.

I even repeated it myself in this thread: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=116983&highlight=vauxhall - perhaps that's the one you noticed?

 

[urbophile]

It's a while since I used Vauxhall but used to do so frequently. It was always prone to overcrowding especially with the narrow island platforms. There doesn't seem to be any suggestion of replacing (or supplementing) the staircases with escalators or lifts. If they could be located at the other ends of the platform, maybe entailing a new entrance tunnel further east, they would both add to convenience and balance out the congestion. Maybe lifts are already installed? I can't visualise the layout exactly so none of these suggestions might work.

 

[swt_passenger]

There are four lifts now, they were an 'Access for all' project done around 2012/13.

 

[Midmat]

That did come up some time ago, but I thought that was just a suggestion by a forum member for something that could theoretically be done, and nothing official.

I even repeated it myself in this thread: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=116983&highlight=vauxhall - perhaps that's the one you noticed?

Thanks for that, I thought you were right at first and it must have been your post I was remembering. However, a quick Google and it did make the draft wessex consultation in 2014 which is probably where I did originally read it:

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/long-term-planning-process/wessex-route-study-draft-for-consultation.pdf

P145

Looks like it made the final one too

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/Publications/long-term-planning/wessex-route-study/Wessex-Route-Study-Final.pdf

P118

So yes, not a committed scheme as of yet, but something that may happen before crossrail 2?

 

[HarleyDavidson]

But create more of a congestion problem at Clapham Junction instead (where there are already more than enough people getting on and off trains as it is)...

Clapham has longer platforms and they can also use the Windsor side platforms too, that's if the lazy beggars can be bothered to go over there. Want the Victoria line go to Victoria, or if you want Vauxhall, go to Waterloo and back out, which is what an increasing number of people do, to avoid the crush.

 

[Bald Rick]

Clapham has longer platforms

How much longer on the main suburban and Windsor side?

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

Clapham has longer platforms and they can also use the Windsor side platforms too, that's if the lazy beggars can be bothered to go over there. Want the Victoria line go to Victoria, or if you want Vauxhall, go to Waterloo and back out, which is what an increasing number of people do, to avoid the crush.

Aren't Vauxhall [1/2] and Waterloo [1] in different zones? So coming into London that would cost more.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Aren't Vauxhall [1/2] and Waterloo [1] in different zones? So coming into London that would cost more.

But if you just get off and straight back without touching out (walk around the stop blocks) to another train, it'll have cost you nowt. If they ask just say you couldn't get off due to the crowd or overslept.

 

[Sleeper]

One of the factors that increases the use of Vauxhall station, especially in the peaks, is its situation as the last stop before Waterloo in Zone 2 and being next to a bus station. A lot of money can be saved by buying a Travelcard omitting Z1, and using it by train inwards as far as Vauxhall then on into central London by bus.

(For those who don't know, any Travelcard is good for travel on buses throughout London, irrespective of zones.)

For example, a Z1-4 annual Travelcard costs £1,860, but a Z2-4 Travelcard only £1,072.

I'm only an ordinary commuter myself, but I've known quite a few people who have chosen to do this rather than take the quicker option of carrying on into Waterloo or taking the Victoria Line. By extension, this seems likely to be a stratagem used quite widely.

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

One of the factors that increases the use of Vauxhall station, especially in the peaks, is its situation as the last stop before Waterloo in Zone 2 and being next to a bus station. A lot of money can be saved by buying a Travelcard omitting Z1, and using it by train inwards as far as Vauxhall then on into central London by bus.

(For those who don't know, any Travelcard is good for travel on buses throughout London, irrespective of zones.)

For example, a Z1-4 annual Travelcard costs £1,860, but a Z2-4 Travelcard only £1,072.

I'm only an ordinary commuter myself, but I've known quite a few people who have chosen to do this rather than take the quicker option of carrying on into Waterloo or taking the Victoria Line. By extension, this seems likely to be a stratagem used quite widely.

Great tip, I never knew that, I guess it dates from when they stopped having Bus zones.

 

[RichardN]

Vauxhall is really handy for people with paper Zone2 - 6 seasons who want to use PAYG oyster for the tube too. I think the Victoria Line is a bigger traffic driver than the buses and the bulk of passengers wish to go Northbound.

My suggestions...

Demolish platform 5/6, slew the track through 6 and 7 and the widen platform 7/8. Would mean a loss of flexibility in disruption, and short term double backs, but is the only solution that does not have severe knock on effects elsewhere.

Stop the Victoria Line calling at Vauxhall northbound in the morning peak. Most of the passengers will switch to Southern to Victoria at Clapham Junction. Cheap but would annoy many people. Would cut overcrowding from Clapham Junction to Vauxhall dramatically but would obviously increase crowding at Victoria Underground (though there would be more space on the northbound trains.)

Close platform 7 and 8 entirely and run suburban trains non stop (See above)

 

[Wolfie]

Clapham has longer platforms and they can also use the Windsor side platforms too, that's if the lazy beggars can be bothered to go over there. Want the Victoria line go to Victoria, or if you want Vauxhall, go to Waterloo and back out, which is what an increasing number of people do, to avoid the crush.

my bold

Perhaps when the rebuilding work at Victoria is complete... obviously you have never seen the dantesque scenes currently at Victoria tube station in rush-hour....

Vauxhall is really handy for people with paper Zone2 - 6 seasons who want to use PAYG oyster for the tube too. I think the Victoria Line is a bigger traffic driver than the buses and the bulk of passengers wish to go Northbound.

My suggestions...

Demolish platform 5/6, slew the track through 6 and 7 and the widen platform 7/8. Would mean a loss of flexibility in disruption, and short term double backs, but is the only solution that does not have severe knock on effects elsewhere.

Stop the Victoria Line calling at Vauxhall northbound in the morning peak. Most of the passengers will switch to Southern to Victoria at Clapham Junction. Cheap but would annoy many people. Would cut overcrowding from Clapham Junction to Vauxhall dramatically but would obviously increase crowding at Victoria Underground (though there would be more space on the northbound trains.)

Close platform 7 and 8 entirely and run suburban trains non stop (See above)

My bold

All that you are proposing is that National Rail dumps the problem on TfL. Given that massive works are underway at Victoria tube station to help it to cope with current loads your suggestion would be about as welcome in TfL circles as woodworm to a man with a wooden leg...

But if you just get off and straight back without touching out (walk around the stop blocks) to another train, it'll have cost you nowt. If they ask just say you couldn't get off due to the crowd or overslept.

With SWT's "friendly" RPI's... yeah right - do it repeatedly, get monitored on CCTV and then get done for systematic fraud.... "a man on an internet forum, who says that he works for your company, said that it was alright"

 

[RichardN]

All that you are proposing is that National Rail dumps the problem on TfL. Given that massive works are underway at Victoria tube station to help it to cope with current loads your suggestion would be about as welcome in TfL circles as woodworm to a man with a wooden leg...

Pretty much, though there would be more space on each underground train because it hadn't picked up those passengers at Vauxhall. From experience, when the Victoria line is not operating south of Victoria, it is much easier to board SWTs suburban services at Clapham Junction.

 

[Dr_Paul]

Before I got my Old Codger's Free-Travel Oyster last year and used a Pay-As-You-Go Oyster, I would alight at Vauxhall and catch a bus or walk into central London. It saved a few bob over the years.

As for the main question, the best thing would be to get rid of platforms 5/6, on the main through lines, as they are seldom used, shift the track and then widen platforms 7/8. Whether this is easily done, whether the actual structure beneath the platforms would take the weight of the shifted track, I don't know. Similarly, I'm not sure if the viaduct could be easily widened. Either way, it would be a major job.

The Windsor lines would be a little more tricky, as platforms 1/2 are for up services and 3/4 are for down services, most of the semi-fast services -- for example, Windsor -- now stop there: therefore, unlike the main lines, where the stopping services keep to platforms 7/8 and through services to 5/6, all platforms are in use.

Something needs to be done about platforms 7/8. I used to travel regularly to Vauxhall, starting in the early 1970s, and even though the Victoria Line was open by then, the usage of the BR station was pretty small. Boarding there at rush hour recently for the first time in years, I was surprised at the great number of people now using it and how crowded it gets, especially when an up and down service arrives at the same time.

 

[hassaanhc]

Before I got my Old Codger's Free-Travel Oyster last year and used a Pay-As-You-Go Oyster, I would alight at Vauxhall and catch a bus or walk into central London. It saved a few bob over the years.

As for the main question, the best thing would be to get rid of platforms 5/6, on the main through lines, as they are seldom used, shift the track and then widen platforms 7/8. Whether this is easily done, whether the actual structure beneath the platforms would take the weight of the shifted track, I don't know. Similarly, I'm not sure if the viaduct could be easily widened. Either way, it would be a major job.

The Windsor lines would be a little more tricky, as platforms 1/2 are for up services and 3/4 are for down services, most of the semi-fast services -- for example, Windsor -- now stop there: therefore, unlike the main lines, where the stopping services keep to platforms 7/8 and through services to 5/6, all platforms are in use.

Something needs to be done about platforms 7/8. I used to travel regularly to Vauxhall, starting in the early 1970s, and even though the Victoria Line was open by then, the usage of the BR station was pretty small. Boarding there at rush hour recently for the first time in years, I was surprised at the great number of people now using it and how crowded it gets, especially when an up and down service arrives at the same time.

The main issue with the P7/8 island is how narrow they are (and how the rarely used fast line P5/6 are inappropriately wide). That is not an issue with the P1/2 and P3/4 islands; note how they just needed to be extended at one end for 10 car operation and be able to meet the minimum width requirement, rather than the staggered arrangements at both ends of P7/8. P3/4 even have a waiting room.

 

[swt_passenger]

...P3/4 even have a waiting room.

That'll be a bit lonely once all the Windsor side trains are running through P1 and P2 only...

(From Wessex route study, Fig 5.5 future track layout on page 79.)

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Looks like it made the final one too

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/Publications/long-term-planning/wessex-route-study/Wessex-Route-Study-Final.pdf

P118

So yes, not a committed scheme as of yet, but something that may happen before crossrail 2?

Hadn't noticed that the few times I've scanned through the route study looking for other stuff, good spot.

 

[Nicks]

Until quite recently P7/8 had it's own waiting room , but this was removed to increase the platform waiting area. A lot of the usage is due to the Z2-6 travelcard saving. It is surprising in the morning peak how empty trains can be from Vauxhall to Waterloo although strangely this is not replicated in the evening peak.

My policy at Vauxhall is always to get the first boardable countrybound train and change at Wimbledon if necessary to get to my destination, as is not a pleasant experience especially in cold windy weather as the platform is very exposed.