Virgin Trains permanently lifts Friday evening Off-Peak restrictions

[ForTheLoveOf]

As per https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46056276:

Virgin Trains says it has permanently removed all peak-hour restrictions to trains that travel on Friday afternoons from London Euston station.

It said the decision was made to ease overcrowding on Friday evening off-peak trains to destinations such as Birmingham, Manchester and Liverpool.

Passengers on off-peak trains are often forced to stand for hours in order to avoid paying much higher peak fares.

Transport watchdog Transport Focus said it welcomed the move.

Customers can now choose to travel any time in the afternoon, and they will be charged off-peak ticket prices.

"Virgin deserves praise for testing a real practice improvement in the service they offer hard-pressed passengers, and for following through to make a permanent change when demand clearly speaks for itself," Transport Focus' chief executive Anthony Smith told the BBC.

"Virgin's experience suggests some clear lessons for other operators too - we do hope others do not wait long to follow suit."

I did see that Virgin had extended the applicability of the Friday evening Off-Peak restriction lifting in the electronic data a few weeks ago. I had wondered whether it was an oversight, but lo and behold, it is now to become a permanent fixture.

It makes a lot of sense in my view. As they have said, it reduced crowding significantly on the first services valid with Off-Peak tickets.

I also see that Virgin have yet to change the text of the Off-Peak restrictions they control (at least, the ones which had restrictions against evening travel). I wonder whether they will ensure that, where Euston restrictions arise in other restriction codes, any specific times mentioned (rather than references to the likes of 2C/9I) are changed to include the Friday easement.

In either case, it's a good move in my view. Perhaps other operators will follow suit? There certainly is form for long-distance operators having more relaxed Friday evening Off-Peak restrictions from London stations. Of course I think the ultimate solution is to move to a pricing model more similar to what GWR, EMT, LNER etc. have, with proper three-step differentiation between Anytime, Off-Peak and Super Off-Peak.

Currently very few Virgin flows have Super Off-Peak tickets, and really those tickets are so heavily restricted they are virtually unusable (certainly for a day trip out). Perhaps this will all just change with the advent of fares review, or perhaps they will roll out Super Off-Peak tickets to more of the network, with the same restrictions as the existing Off-Peak. Who knows!

Your comments, please...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Currently very few Virgin flows have Super Off-Peak tickets, and really those tickets are so heavily restricted they are virtually unusable (certainly for a day trip out). Perhaps this will all just change with the advent of fares review, or perhaps they will roll out Super Off-Peak tickets to more of the network, with the same restrictions as the existing Off-Peak. Who knows!

VT's Off Peaks are priced at the level of Super Off Peaks on other TOCs. VT never had a "Business Saver" or similar which is what has become the Off Peak on the ECML, for example.

The VT Super Off Peaks are intended to compete with LNR on flows where their very cheap tickets are offered. They are a level below what other TOCs are offering.

 

[Kite159]

This can only be good news for rail users, spreading the loads on a Friday, so it isn't all a mad rush for the first off-peak service.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Does this also show the degree of consumer resistance to booked train only/ uber expensive Anytime tickets?

Virgin have effectively "thrown in the towel" on trying to yield manage Friday evenings.

 

[DarloRich]

An interesting move. Lets see the effect on prices and availability. Trying not to be cynical.

 

[LOL The Irony]

This can only be good news for rail users, spreading the loads on a Friday, so it isn't all a mad rush for the first off-peak service.

It'll probably transfer to another service that was a peak. You always get that group of people who MUST get the first train possible.

 

[Kite159]

It'll probably transfer to another service that was a peak. You always get that group of people who MUST get the first train possible.

But instead of that group having to wait for the first off-peak service to Manchester (18:57) they can catch the first available service with their off-peak return.

It isn't new as Virgin have relaxed Friday peak restrictions for a good couple months so the information they have gathered must point in a reduction of overcrowding, and probably more revenue as those who would have purchased a booked train only ticket upgraded to an off-peak return

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

VT's Off Peaks are priced at the level of Super Off Peaks on other TOCs. VT never had a "Business Saver" or similar which is what has become the Off Peak on the ECML, for example.

The VT Super Off Peaks are intended to compete with LNR on flows where their very cheap tickets are offered. They are a level below what other TOCs are offering.

Perhaps there needs to be a four-fare walk-up structure then. I don't know what the optimal approach is, but, as others have said, effectively throwing the towel in means they must have been having quite severe difficulties managing revenue Vs demand.

 

[30907]

Does this also show the degree of consumer resistance to booked train only/ uber expensive Anytime tickets?

Virgin have effectively "thrown in the towel" on trying to yield manage Friday evenings.

I suspect it's because Advances out of Euston at evening peak times are priced so high that anyone with any flexibility in their schedule would wait till 1900.
Looking at a typical weekend trip (Manchester, out Friday 7 Dec, back Sunday teatime), the Advance is only just over 10% cheaper. (Travelling outward Thursday 1600-1800, the Advance is typically 2-3 times more expensive!). As a 1900+ departure gets you to most of Cheshire and Lancs by 2300, it's a no-brainer for their core routes.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Perhaps there needs to be a four-fare walk-up structure then. I don't know what the optimal approach is, but, as others have said, effectively throwing the towel in means they must have been having quite severe difficulties managing revenue Vs demand.

It's got nothing to do with demand, it's about maximising revenue and nothing else. VT peak services are generally fairly quiet.

This will be a significant improvement by spreading out loadings.

 

[Mag_seven]

This can only be good news for rail users, spreading the loads on a Friday, so it isn't all a mad rush for the first off-peak service.

Which leads to the odd situation of "peak" services being empty, and "off peak" services being rammed.

 

[sheff1]

"Virgin deserves praise for testing a real practice improvement in the service they offer hard-pressed passengers, and for following through to make a permanent change when demand clearly speaks for itself," Transport Focus' chief executive Anthony Smith told the BBC.

"Virgin's experience suggests some clear lessons for other operators too - we do hope others do not wait long to follow suit.".

The OP restrictions on 'Inter City' flows out of Kings Cross on Friday evenings were removed many years ago. Until now no other equivalent operator had changed their restrictions in the same way, so Mr Smith's hope may be in vain. Of course, a body with teeth could force other TOCs to follow suit .......

 

[Hellfire]

Virgin claim that the change will not affect revenue

 

[Kite159]

Which leads to the odd situation of "peak" services being empty, and "off peak" services being rammed.

Indeed, for example last year I managed to get some cheap advances via a Virgin Trains sale for the 18:40 to Manchester and had a table to myself in a lightly loaded coach. I strongly expect the 18:57 & 19:00 services were very busy due to them being the first couple off-peak departures.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Will be interesting to see if theirs any reaction from Chiltern like allowing their super off peak fares in the Friday evening peak.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The OP restrictions on 'Inter City' flows out of Kings Cross on Friday evenings were removed many years ago. Until now no other equivalent operator had changed their restrictions in the same way, so Mr Smith's hope may be in vain. Of course, a body with teeth could force other TOCs to follow suit .......

They were never added to those tickets. The ECML "Off Peak" is actually the old "Business Saver", valid in the evening but not morning peak, and comes at a much higher price than the West Coast "Off Peaks" which are actually the old "Saver".

Simple.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Virgin claim that the change will not affect revenue

Unless LNR react, they might manage a bit of an ORCATS raid from people no longer buying their Anytimes.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Will be interesting to see if theirs any reaction from Chiltern like allowing their super off peak fares in the Friday evening peak.

I would be pleasantly surprised if they did that: Chiltern's fairly acceptably priced Off-Peak tickets have been valid in the evening peak for many years. (Albeit they are not much cheaper than the Any Permitted). Perhaps a new Friday evening fare will be introduced, halfway between the Off-Peak and Super Off-Peak!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The VT off-peak fares are, I think, regulated, so the DfT will have had to approve the change.
In fact, they might be behind it.
While people castigate VT for off-peak onerous time restrictions, I think they are mandated by DfT (maybe not the exact times, but certainly the heavy restrictions).
It is also acknowledgement that business travel is less on a Friday, especially pm.

 

[Kite159]

The VT off-peak fares are, I think, regulated, so the DfT will have had to approve the change.
In fact, they might be behind it.
While people castigate VT for off-peak onerous time restrictions, I think they are mandated by DfT (maybe not the exact times, but certainly the heavy restrictions).
It is also acknowledgement that business travel is less on a Friday, especially pm.

There is a few more people who work Monday - Thursdays in the city, with Friday spent working from home.

Also the loadings on Friday of commuters do tend to be more spread out, with some finishing work early and heading home, some heading out after work for some socialising after a busy week. That is based on loadings out of Waterloo on the Salisbury services

 

[Gareth Marston]

It's a big benefit to one segment of the long distance market - those that want to exodus London for the weekend but not a great deal of use to those in the provinces who still can't get to London at off peak prices until getting on toward Midday.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

The VT off-peak fares are, I think, regulated, so the DfT will have had to approve the change.
In fact, they might be behind it.
While people castigate VT for off-peak onerous time restrictions, I think they are mandated by DfT (maybe not the exact times, but certainly the heavy restrictions).
It is also acknowledgement that business travel is less on a Friday, especially pm.

Why would they have to approve the changes? The fact that they are regulated means Virgin need DfT permission to change the route code or description, or to increase the price more than the regulated increase, or to increase the restrictions above the regulated maximum (15:00-19:00 departing London in the weekday evening).

But here they are relaxing the restrictions. As you say, perhaps the DfT is behind the idea, but I would be surprised if they pushed Virgin into doing it permanently.

 

[Furrball]

Quoted in a number of places

Reduction in loadings

– 7pm London Euston to Manchester (from 113% to 51%)

– 7.03pm London Euston to Birmingham (from 113% to 39%)

– 7.10pm from London Euston to Holyhead (from 123% to 85%)

 

[6Gman]

Indeed, for example last year I managed to get some cheap advances via a Virgin Trains sale for the 18:40 to Manchester and had a table to myself in a lightly loaded coach. I strongly expect the 18:57 & 19:00 services were very busy due to them being the first couple off-peak departures.

The 1840 is my train of choice. Always lightly loaded (in my experience).

 

[snail]

It's got nothing to do with demand, it's about maximising revenue and nothing else. VT peak services are generally fairly quiet.

Really? When I've caught a Glasgow train there have been enough seats but I wouldn't describe it as quiet. Having fewer people packing into the 1930 (the only off peak going north of Preston) would be good though.

 

[ainsworth74]

Quoted in a number of places

Reduction in loadings

Wow! Those are some damn impressive reductions! I expected that there would be a chunk of people who would, if given the option at the right price, travel earlier but 1903 has seen its patronage basically collapse!

 

[30907]

Really? When I've caught a Glasgow train there have been enough seats but I wouldn't describe it as quiet. Having fewer people packing into the 1930 (the only off peak going north of Preston) would be good though.

Preston etc is something of an exception.

 

[janb]

This is the press release that has details of those loading reductions for those interested.
https://www.virgintrains.co.uk/abou...ps-friday-afternoon-peak-restrictions-2785997

 

[Starmill]

The ECML "Off Peak" is actually the old "Business Saver", valid in the evening but not morning peak, and comes at a much higher price than the West Coast "Off Peaks" which are actually the old "Saver".

'Off Peak Return' tickets priced by LNER are not generally unrestricted in the evening. For example, the Darlington to London Off Peak Return costs £223.00 and is subject to 1D restrictions, which bar departure from London KX after 1557, and before 1746 Monday - Thursday. They do have the same 'Friday easment' that we are discussing here.

By contrast the Oxenholme to London Off Peak Return is less than half the price at £103, and never has any afternoon restrictions.

 

[Starmill]

Unless LNR react, they might manage a bit of an ORCATS raid from people no longer buying their Anytimes.

I think you mean their Off Peak tickets.

The hideous overcrowding of LNR services looks set to continue to me though. Take next Thursday afternoon for a clue.

Cheapest ticket, London Euston to Stoke-on-Trent:
LM 1446 2h16m £22.50
VT 1500 1h24m £70.60
VT 1520 1h28m £101.00
LM 1546 2h16m £31.00
VT 1600 1h24m £121.00
VT 1620 1h28m £101.00
VT 1633 1h45m £141.00 *
LM 1646 2h16m £22.50
VT 1700 1h24m £141.00
VT 1720 1h28m £141.00
VT 1733 1h45m £124.00 *
LM 1746 2h16m £35.00
VT 1800 1h24m £121.00
VT 1820 1h28m £79.00
VT 1833 1h46m £96.00 *
LM 1849 2h22m £22.50
VT 1900 1h24m £70.60

LM West Midlands Trains
VT Virgin Trains
*change to CrossCountry at Stafford

As you can see, ridiculously high fares on nearly every VT or VT & XC option, but sensible fares for booking a whole week in advance of travel on the West Midlands Trains options. The price cliffs are massive (in one case VT are charging a multiple of 6.3 to save between 30 and 50 mins of journey time!) so it is no surprise that the overcrowding is horrible on many of those trains, or that very large shifts occur when the prices are cut in half...

The real problem is the remaining four days of the business week...