WASP Community Bus in the Surrey area.

[busestrains]

WASP Community Bus are operating scheduled bus routes and charging cash fares onboard and accepting ENCTS for free travel and statistics published by Surrey County Council show that they have been paid ENCTS reimbursement every year just like all of the other bus operators.

Despite this the WASP Community Bus routes have all always appeared to be unregistered. There does not appear to be any registration. This service does not show up on the Bus Times website or any other site.

All of the other similar community bus operators in the area (eg, Battle Area Community Transport, Bexhill Community Bus, Buses 4 U, Community Transport For The Lewes Area, Compo Community Bus, Handcross & District Community Transport, Harting Minibus, Meon Valley Community Bus, Midhurst Community Bus, Runnymede Community Transport, Rye & District Community Transport, Selsey Community Bus, Waverley Hoppa, Wealdlink Community Transport, etc) all appear to have registered their routes and as such they appear on the Bus Times website and on Traveline and Google Maps and other websites etc.

Take the Compo Community Bus as an example who operate services near to where WASP Community Bus operate. They appear to be all registered as they appear on all sites. Likewise all other operators do.

So i am very interested what is going on here? Are these services really unregistered? If so how are they getting away with it? Is there some sort of exemption that they have?

 

[GusB]

So i am very interested what is going on here? Are these services really unregistered? If so how are they getting away with it? Is there some sort of exemption that they have?

I'm not an expert on these matters, but when I read "community bus" my thoughts turned to one of the permits that community transport providers can use. In this case, I'm guessing that the services concerned are being operated under a Section 22 Permit.

Section 19 and 22 permits and obligations: not for profit passenger transport

www.gov.uk

Section 22 permits are issued to bodies concerned for the social and welfare needs of one or more communities. They operate vehicles without a view to profit and use those vehicles to provide a community bus service. Unlike section 19 permit vehicles, community bus services are ‘local bus services’ and can carry the general public. Local bus services are defined as services using public service vehicles for the carriage of passengers by road at separate fares on which passengers may travel for less than 15 miles.

 

[Surreyman]

WASP Community Bus are operating scheduled bus routes and charging cash fares onboard and accepting ENCTS for free travel and statistics published by Surrey County Council show that they have been paid ENCTS reimbursement every year just like all of the other bus operators.

Despite this the WASP Community Bus routes have all always appeared to be unregistered. There does not appear to be any registration. This service does not show up on the Bus Times website or any other site.

All of the other similar community bus operators in the area (eg, Battle Area Community Transport, Bexhill Community Bus, Buses 4 U, Community Transport For The Lewes Area, Compo Community Bus, Handcross & District Community Transport, Harting Minibus, Meon Valley Community Bus, Midhurst Community Bus, Runnymede Community Transport, Rye & District Community Transport, Selsey Community Bus, Waverley Hoppa, Wealdlink Community Transport, etc) all appear to have registered their routes and as such they appear on the Bus Times website and on Traveline and Google Maps and other websites etc.

Take the Compo Community Bus as an example who operate services near to where WASP Community Bus operate. They appear to be all registered as they appear on all sites. Likewise all other operators do.

So i am very interested what is going on here? Are these services really unregistered? If so how are they getting away with it? Is there some sort of exemption that they have?

I am embarrassed to admit that I have never heard of it until I read this post just now - and I follow transport matters across the UK on a daily basis!
It seems that it is a minibus provided by Shere council, providing a handful of services to various supermarkets in Godalming, Guildford & Cranleigh.

Copied from the Shere Council web site:

Wasp Bus - Shere Parish Council

www.shereparishcouncil.gov.uk

Wasp Bus​

Accessible minibus providing services for all parishoners of Shere, Wotton & Abinger in Mole Valley and Guildford. Covers Dorking, Forest Green, Holmbury and Abinger Common. Also available for hire.

Please call Rachael Dews on 07802 460069 or email [email protected] to confirm dates and timings as the below schedule may be subject to change:

Scheduled WASP Services​

Broadbridge Heath Tesco (First and third Tuesday of each month)​

Approximate departure times:

Holmbury St Mary 13.50
Forest Green 14.00
Walliswood 14.10
Oakwood Hill 14.15

Cranleigh (Second and forth Saturday of each month)​

Holmbury St Mary 09.45
Abinger Hammer 09.50
Gomshall 09.55
Peaslake 10.00

Returns from Cranleigh at 12.00

Godalming Sainsbury’s and Waitrose (Thursday once a month – call to confirm dates)​

Approximate departure times:

Gomshall 09.50
Peaslake 10.00
Shere 10.10

Guildford Lidl (Thursday once a month – call to confirm dates)​

Approximate departure times:

Peaslake 09.50
Gomshall 10.00
Shere 10.10

 

[busestrains]

I'm not an expert on these matters, but when I read "community bus" my thoughts turned to one of the permits that community transport providers can use. In this case, I'm guessing that the services concerned are being operated under a Section 22 Permit.

Section 19 and 22 permits and obligations: not for profit passenger transport

www.gov.uk

Maybe that could be why. But i thought if they had one of those permits than their services would still appear in the data like on the Bus Times website. I am pretty sure a lot of these other community bus operators that i had mentioned are also using these permits but all of those other operators appear in the data like on the Bus Times website and on Traveline and on Google Maps etc. So i am not sure what is going on here.

I am embarrassed to admit that I have never heard of it until I read this post just now - and I follow transport matters across the UK on a daily basis!
It seems that it is a minibus provided by Shere council, providing a handful of services to various supermarkets in Godalming, Guildford & Cranleigh.

Copied from the Shere Council web site: -

"Wasp Bus​

Accessible minibus providing services for all parishoners of Shere, Wotton & Abinger in Mole Valley and Guildford. Covers Dorking, Forest Green, Holmbury and Abinger Common. Also available for hire.

Please call Rachael Dews on 07802 460069 or email [email protected] to confirm dates and timings as the below schedule may be subject to change:

Scheduled WASP Services​

Broadbridge Heath Tesco (First and third Tuesday of each month)​

Approximate departure times:

Holmbury St Mary 13.50
Forest Green 14.00
Walliswood 14.10
Oakwood Hill 14.15

Cranleigh (Second and forth Saturday of each month)​

Holmbury St Mary 09.45
Abinger Hammer 09.50
Gomshall 09.55
Peaslake 10.00

Returns from Cranleigh at 12.00

Godalming Sainsbury’s and Waitrose (Thursday once a month – call to confirm dates)​

Approximate departure times:

Gomshall 09.50
Peaslake 10.00
Shere 10.10

Guildford Lidl (Thursday once a month – call to confirm dates)​

Approximate departure times:

Peaslake 09.50
Gomshall 10.00
Shere 10.10"

Yes it appears that the WASP Community Bus is wholly owned by Shere Parish Council from my understanding. I think it has been running for around twenty years as i remember it from the early 2000s i think. The timetables have appeared in the paper copy Surrey County Council timetable books for years. But other than that there is very little publicity. It is not well publicised.

 

[WY Bus Spotter]

Does Blackie Lawless and Chris Holmes drive for them? (Sorry, niche reference there).

 

[Dai Corner]

Does Blackie Lawless and Chris Holmes drive for them? (Sorry, niche reference there).

I've heard they always play rock music on their buses.

They're also so popular that there's often a scrum at the stop as passengers try to board their number 8.

 

[Simon75]

Is their operating centre registered with the traffic commissioner too ?

 

[Soundwave]

Given the journey times of the trips, I am disappointed WASP haven't used the slogan "Anything can happen in the next half an hour"

 

[Citistar]

Section 22 services have to be registered, but don't have to adhere to any of the requirements of licenced PSV operators, such as publishing BODS data regarding timetables or tracking information. It's the future.

 

[markymark2000]

Despite this the WASP Community Bus routes have all always appeared to be unregistered. There does not appear to be any registration. This service does not show up on the Bus Times website or any other site.

Buses that are being run under permits have no public database (that I know of). I did recently put in a Freedom of Information (FOI) Request to the Department for Transport and that unveiled a large list of bus operators on permits. Here is the list that they gave me back in March. This includes Section 19 and Section 22 and shows both operators and routes.

Section 19 and 22 operators - a Freedom of Information request to Traffic Commissioners for Great Britain

Dear Traffic Commissioners, Please can you supply a list of all of the Section 19 operators. This list should include things such as the passenger class which can be carried, and how many of each permit (standard & large) they have and the Traffic Commissioners area which the permit is issued...

www.whatdotheyknow.com

Maybe that could be why. But i thought if they had one of those permits than their services would still appear in the data like on the Bus Times website. I am pretty sure a lot of these other community bus operators that i had mentioned are also using these permits but all of those other operators appear in the data like on the Bus Times website and on Traveline and on Google Maps etc. So i am not sure what is going on here.

There are often 2 unwritten criteria that these routes fulfil before going onto the Traveline database (Which feeds the Traveline site, Bustimes and Google Maps). Firstly, do you have to be a member?. For some reason, many community bus schemes require you to be a member to use their services. I know my local council has done that for their community bus services. It's a fully scheduled route but they have hidden it under community buses and mandatory sign up to use it. If it's members only, it wouldn't be wise to put on the Traveline database because the route isn't really open for everyone to use. If you go out and plan a journey to catch that bus, you will be declined travel.
The other criteria is if it's pre booked in some way. For example, the bus serves 3 villages but only serves them if someone phones up and requests them

There are exceptions to both of these but generally, this is what the majority of councils seem to go with. The basic premise of 'If you see this bus on a journey planner, and you then go out to catch this bus, without any contact pre departure, will you get on the bus?' If no, it tends not to be online, if yes, it tends to be online.

I do think that community bus operators can, if they wish, choose to not be on the traveline database.

Section 22 services have to be registered, but don't have to adhere to any of the requirements of licenced PSV operators, such as publishing BODS data regarding timetables or tracking information. It's the future.

Sadly though they don't show up on the registration checks so it's easy to think they are unregistered. BODS should comply for S22 operators where they have won tenders. That is one thing that I think is wrong. Firms like South Pennine being able to go in cheap on tenders because they don't have to comply with BODs. That's out of order in my opinion.

 

[Roger1973]

Section 22 services have to be registered, but don't have to adhere to any of the requirements of licenced PSV operators, such as publishing BODS data regarding timetables or tracking information. It's the future.

Yes, that.

Section 22 bus services do show up in the Traffic Commissioners' weekly 'Notices and Proceedings' but only when there's a registration / variation / cancellation, which may not be all that often with a volunteer organisation that may not be keen on change. But they don't appear in the searchable online data of registered services. Short of trawling through several years' worth of N+P, it would be hard to say whether their services are registered or not.

But if Surrey County Council put the services in their timetable books, I'd be surprised if there was anything unlawful about it. There's no legal requirement for bus operators to publicise their services, and it sounds like it's very much a local service for local people, so the occasional mention in parish magazines and the like is probably quite adequate for what they aim to do.

The likes of Bus Times and Google Maps are derivative when it comes to data - they glean data from BODS and Traveline, they don't do their own data gathering, and there's no requirement on local authorities or bus operators to get data to them. The process can be lumpy, and what's in Google can be out of date, or occasionally duplicated / conflicting if it ends up with data from two sources (e.g. if a route crosses a county boundary and is in two councils' real time data.)

Transport Authorities used to tend to get community bus routes in to Traveline, but now (in much of the country) the previous regional structure of Traveline has been abolished, after Government decided that local authorities don't need to get involved in bus data any more, on the belief that operators will load accurate data to BODS in a timely fashion (which bluntly some operators are doing better than others) and they probably didn't think about community bus routes. Some councils still do get involved (the Traveline South West region is still functioning, and has picked up some authorities from outside that area whose local Traveline region disbanded.)