Water quality and maintenance of steam heating boilers

[Rescars]

The current discussion about steam loco maintenance and the impact of water quality on boiler washouts (coinciding as it has with my descaling my electric kettle!) makes me wonder if similar considerations applied to the maintenance of the steam heating boilers fitted to the diesel fleet. Were these subject to similar washout cycles? Was consideration given to the sources of water to minimise mineral content or was the water supply at the relevant sheds/TMDs and stabling points softened where necessary? Anyone know much about this?

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Can't comment with any authority, but given diesel locos with operational boilers were likely far more prevalent in the early diesel days, ie during last years of steam and beyond, I would have thought the water supply source(s) on depot would have been exactly the same as that used for outgoing steam, so likely such diesels were at same risk. I well remember travelling in steam heated Mk1's all over the country, but the use of SH boilers on diesels was already (late 70's) on the way out. Wonder if the demise of SH was partly due to boiler problems caused by water impurities? Just a thought.

 

[Taunton]

Diesel loco boilers were prone to a wide range of causes of failure, one of the main reasons for needing a steam loco substitute in early times. Badly scaled boilers shutting down were one of 101 reasons for this. A concept called Automatic Blowdown was meant to remove dissolved particles from the water, but itself was not wholly reliable.

As with other things, USA diesel loco builders seemed to have got to grips with the issue more, and steam heat boilers were used far longer there, they were still put into Amtrak's new SDP40 diesels in the 1970s. Notably these had two boilers side-by-side, so if one shut down the other carried on.

USA boilers were used 12 months a year, as they drove steam-powered air conditioning as well. UK issues in October when heat was first turned on were substantial.

There was an interesting sideline in Modern Railways in the early 1960s about the morning Yorkshire Pullman. The chef in the kitchen used to look out before departure to see if the loco was steam or diesel, and if the latter would prepare much more porridge, knowing the train was going to be colder.

 

[D Williams]

Steam heat boilers were as reliable as the proverbial baby's backside! It wasn't uncommon to roster an additional fireman just to keep the boiler running.

 

[ac6000cw]

On BR, didn't the use of a steam heat boiler require a fireman/secondman on the loco (to look after it)?

The cost of doing that was doubtless one of the reasons for phasing out steam heating (in addition to the boiler reliability issues, and the need to refill the water tank on the loco relatively frequently. The water tank also took up space which could otherwise be used for additional fuel capacity).

 

[Big Jumby 74]

I have a couple of operating instruction manuals for Derby/Sulzer type 2s (24/25 principally), but these are based around loco operation, so the sort of thing a driver would receive when learning the type, and although they include a vast amount of detail about the SH equipment fitted and how it operates, there is nothing about the maintenance of same, that I can see at a glance. Such matters, going back to Rescars post (above) and any instructions thereto, would have been issued to depot fitters etc. The likes of Derby works on receipt of a loco for major exam/refit would likely have just removed said equipment and either recycled/refurbished or just binned same, and replaced with a newly refurbished part, although by all accounts, many class 24/25 so fitted (not all were, from new) lost their SH equipment very early on, and in many such cases it was never refitted.

 

[Rescars]

Thanks for everyone's responses. Interesting comments. I must dig out some operating manuals and see if they say anything helpful. Who was responsible for refilling the water tanks, I wonder? Was this carried out only when refuelling, or did firemen/secondmen get involved in replenishment elsewhere?

 

[Magdalia]

Who was responsible for refilling the water tanks, I wonder? Was this carried out only when refuelling, or did firemen/secondmen get involved in replenishment elsewhere?

Diesel locomotives ran out of boiler water much more quickly than they ran out of fuel.

In their early days diesel locomotives got water from the same sources as steam locomotives, hence the filling point often being on the roof. Some locomotives (EE Type 4s plus possibly others) could pick up from water troughs.

I can remember locomotives taking water during station stops at Cambridge in the early 1970s, there were standpipes with thick high pressure hoses at the ends of platforms 1 and 4. It was a job for the second man.

 

[Taunton]

The Deltics were some of the last diesels to use water troughs. The ECML day trains pretty much changed over to ETH/AC in the early 1970s, but the night sleepers continued to be steam heated for longer. The scoops were operated by compressed air. Second man's task to operate.

Flying Scotsman had managed (just) a nonstop run from London to Edinburgh in 1968, after the end of mainstream steam, relying on the water troughs, but not realised was they were now set for a lower level as the diesel heating didn't need anything like the steam loco pickup. They just about made it. On their subsequent return the word had gone out, and all the southbound ones were set to full height that day.

 

[Hairy Bear]

A couple at Sheffield still exist..not been used in nearly 40 years.

 

[Taunton]

A couple at Sheffield still exist..not been used in nearly 40 years.

Were they not used for refilling toilet tanks on the coaches as well? Or coolant on HST power cars?

 

[Big Jumby 74]

I can remember locomotives taking water during station stops at Cambridge in the early 1970s, there were standpipes with thick high pressure hoses at the ends of platforms 1 and 4

Here's that which was located at the top end of p4 on a very misty-murky morning a few years ago !

 

[Hairy Bear]

Were they not used for refilling toilet tanks on the coaches as well? Or coolant on HST power cars?

No, completely different connection which is the same as fire hoses (about 6" diameter ). Coaches used standard hosepipes, Hst's used the platform bowsers.

 

[D6130]

I can remember locomotives taking water during station stops at Cambridge in the early 1970s, there were standpipes with thick high pressure hoses at the ends of platforms 1 and 4. It was a job for the second man.

There were similar pipes - but mounted on taller wooden posts - at both ends of the platforms at Crianlarich on the West Highland Line. They were much used for topping-up diesel locos' boiler tanks in Winter....but it must have been quite a challenge to stop them freezing in really cold weather.

 

[Taunton]

There were similar pipes - but mounted on taller wooden posts - at both ends of the platforms at Crianlarich on the West Highland Line. They were much used for topping-up diesel locos' boiler tanks in Winter....but it must have been quite a challenge to stop them freezing in really cold weather.

There was plenty of experience with preventing water columns for steam locos freezing up. If you don't know what a coke brazier is, I'm afraid you will have to look it up!

Water troughs were however beyond hope from freezing over in deep winter. For the Up Main at Norton Fitzwarren there was a special board hung on the outside of the signalbox if Creech water troughs, beyond Taunton, were frozen, so nonstop services like the Cornish Riviera could make a special stop at Taunton station for water.

 

[D6130]

There was plenty of experience with preventing water columns for steam locos freezing up. If you don't know what a coke brazier is, I'm afraid you will have to look it up!

I'm very well aware of what a coke brazier is/was....I'm old enough to remember them in everyday use in any number of contexts. However I can't ever remember seeing them in use at Crianlarich....possibly because of the fire risk to the wooden posts on which the hoses were mounted?

 

[Taunton]

I was rather pointing the comment at looking up coke brazier at those of a somewhat more youthful age than us lot - who not only remember them, but remember proper winters as well (doubtless especially at Crianlarich)!

There was a substantial water distribution pipework at Taunton from the huge water tank, still there east of the station. It was buried way down to avoid exactly this problem, and thus a right nuisance for the Outdoor Machinery department when defects developed. Each column that came up from it had its own brazier in freezing conditions, tended by one of the same department who worked round between them all, day and night.