West of England line service patterns 1970s-1990s

[Class800]

I've searched this forum and not come up with any relevant threads. I'm interested in what the basic service pattern (high level really, just number of trains an hour and calling pattern, not exact timings unless others are interested) was on the West of England line (Basingstoke to Exeter via Salisbury) in the time period over the 1970s to 1990s and whether and in what ways it changed over that time period.

By the 1970s, the Beeching cuts had already been implemented, but I still believe the service patterns were quite different than nowadays. Looking at http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/exmouth-junction-to-honiton.html, there is reference to services starting at Plymouth (was this all services or just some diagrams) and running to Brighton.

Did Brighton services alternate with Waterloo ones, so every 2 hours to each, and what route did the Brighton services take? Were some stations called at nowadays by the Waterloo to Exeter trains skipped, and only served by Salisbury to Exeter stoppers?

In terms of a route to Brighton, without knowing what actually happened, the options I can see as feasible include: i) via Salisbury, Romsey, Chandler's Ford, Botley, Fareham, Havant and Barnham, ii) via Salisbury, Romsey, Southampton Central, Botley, Fareham, Havant and Barnham, iii) via Salisbury, Romsey, Southampton Central, Bitterne, Fareham, Havant and Barnham, iv) via Salisbury, Basingstoke (reverse), Botley, Fareham, Havant and Barnham, iv) via Salisbury, Basingstoke, Woking (reverse), Guildford, Redhill (possible 2nd reverse?), and Brighton Main Line, or v) up to Clapham Junction (reverse), then down the Brighton Main Line.

My guess - but I am wanting confirmation from people who may recall this era is that the basic pattern (although it may have changed over the period 1970s to 1990s) at least at the start of the 1970s would be something like:

1 train per 2 hours Plymouth to London Waterloo (skipping some stations on the single track line west of Salisbury)
1 train per 2 hours Plymouth to Brighton (skipping some stations on the single track line west of Salisbury, and probably - to avoid reversals - running via the route I numbered as ii) above i.e. running through Salisbury, Romsey, Southampton Central, Botley, Fareham, Havant and Barnham.
1 train per hour Exeter St Davids to Salisbury (all stations)

Will be interesting to see how correct this is or not, and what changes were made over 1970s to 1990s, especially when the Brightons stopped.

 

[JonathanH]

I'm not quite sure where the idea of a frequent service to Brighton comes from. The service on the Salisbury to Exeter line was set up around a train running every two hours to Waterloo.

In 1972, departures from stations west of Salisbury were:
0650 Yeovil Junction to Waterloo
0615 Exeter St Davids to Waterloo
0655 Exeter St Davids to Honiton
0720 Exeter St Davids to Waterloo
1015 Exeter St Davids to Waterloo
1230 Exeter St Davids to Waterloo
1355 Exeter St Davids to Brighton
1433 Exeter St Davids to Waterloo
1600 Exeter St Davids to Waterloo
1703 Exeter St Davids to Honiton
1800 Exeter St Davids to Waterloo
2007 Exeter St Davids to Waterloo

The Brighton service ran via Salisbury and Southampton.

By 1989, the service had improved slightly to
0510 Yeovil Junction to Waterloo
0605 Gillingham to Waterloo
0556 Exeter St Davids to Waterloo
0622 Exeter St Davids to Honiton
0645 Exeter St Davids to Waterloo
0811 Exeter St Davids to Waterloo
1020 Exeter St Davids to Waterloo
1228 Exeter St Davids to Waterloo
1422 Exeter St Davids to Waterloo
1622 Exeter St Davids to Waterloo
1830 Yeovil Junction to Waterloo
1737 Exeter St Davids to Waterloo
1707 Plymouth to Honiton (1825 Exeter)
1948 Exeter St Davids to Waterloo
2130 Yeovil Junction to Salisbury

A service ran from Plymouth to Portsmouth Harbour on Fridays and Saturdays - 1417 on Friday, 0933 on Saturday with a return working on Saturday and Sunday.

The line remained every two hours until fairly recently with the installation of the passing loop at Axminster.

 

[Taunton]

You can see the complete detail on the Timetable World site : Timetable World

They haven't got any Southern timetable after 1963, but the International section, and then Thomas Cooks Continental, has got its UK pages with the detail as well, for 1973, 1979 and 1989. Table 522 is the one you want.

 

[Gloster]

The service did not change much until May 1980 other than the reduction of the Brighton-Exeter to Saturdays Only, which I think was in 1973. From 1980 there was a slow improvement, initially mostly only as far as Salisbury, but it was the introduction of the 159 that really saw a jump. I did an article a few years ago and I think it is still to hand: I will look later. There was also a lengthy article ten-plus years ago on one of the on-line groups: I think it had a fairly obvious title. As I am still in the throes of moving house, a lot of my dead paperwork is not easy to find.

 

[nw1]

The basic pattern, from what I can make out, from 1965 all the way through to 1990 was of a two-hourly service out of Waterloo. This was originally on-the-hour, odd hours, remaining that way until sometime between 1973 and 1981, but by the 1981/2 timetable had switched to xx10 and by 1989 had become xx15. Note that I have not seen the timetables for *all* these years, but I have actual first-hand memory from the 1982/3 timetable onwards.

Furthermore it looks like the pattern in steam days out of Waterloo was very similar (on the hour, odd hours).

In 1965 this was supplemented by local services out of Salisbury, calling at all the now-closed stations, but these had gone by 1967.

In the sixties there appeared to be a one-a-day Brighton to Exeter in the path of the 1100 out of Waterloo, which terminated at Salisbury. Ironically in steam days this service (the 1100) was the famous 'Atlantic Coast Express'.

By 1981 there was also a two-hourly Waterloo to Salisbury which picked up the stops at Overton, Whitchurch and Grateley. In 1967 and 1973 this did not exist except an 1800 peak extra out of Waterloo.

Traction was 50s + Mk-II in the 80s, with 33s and a mixture of 4TCs and Mk-I stock for the Salisbury terminators. Also, I think one of the Saturday Salisbury diagrams was 6H, at least in 1982/3 and 1983/4.

The Exeter trains typically skipped Overton, Whitchurch and Grateley then called all stations to Honiton. Feniton, Whimple and Pinhoe had only occasional services. Also in the 60s and 70s it looks like many trains skipped Tisbury. Templecombe and Pinhoe were closed for a relatively short period, until 1983 IIRC.

In the 1991-93 period I think (not 100% sure) the service was reduced and became irregular, and the local stations to Salisbury lost their through Waterloo services again, before in 1993 the same alternating Exeter/Salisbury pattern seen in the 80s came back with the introduction of the 159s. Some of the Salisbury services extended to Tisbury or Gillingham. However IIRC the departure time out of Waterloo then switched to xx35.

Source: timetableworld (up to 1981/2); memory (1982/3 onwards).

 

[Class800]

Thanks for this. Really interesting. So, the Brighton was only one service a day - even though photos from the line e.g. on http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/exmouth-junction-to-honiton.html - often show the Brighton service. I think that's probably out of curiosity, as it was a bit of an oddity. Although it gave a (false impression) to me of it being a regular service

 

[randyrippley]

Google "diesel Waterloo Exeter"
Should be the first hit "from 10203 to 50050"

Sorry can't post a link using this phone

 

[JonathanH]

Google "diesel Waterloo Exeter"
Should be the first hit "from 10203 to 50050"

Sorry can't post a link using this phone

The link is http://extra.southernelectric.org.uk/features/historical-features/watexdieselops.html

which contains the following

The service pattern of Waterloo-Exeter bi-hourly semi-fast trains was established in June 1965 and more or less survived to the end of locomotive hauled operations in 1993, but until January 1991 with an ever increasing number of intermediate services between Waterloo and Salisbury. The basic weekday service pattern was established with Waterloo departures at 0900 and every two hours until 1900, with corresponding Exeter departures at uneven intervals from 0615 (Exeter Central only) to 1800 although up trains have been subject to numerous detailed changes in departures with each timetable.

The irregular up service pattern which always existed was designed to meet demand for more closely spaced morning London arrivals than a regular interval service would provide, while various short workings, generally originating or terminating at Salisbury were provided at the start and end of each days service. In addition the 0110 ex-Waterloo continued to run through to Plymouth via Okehampton, as did a 1012 Brighton-Plymouth and 1040 Plymouth-Brighton which were D800 duties west of Salisbury.

One service that deserves special mention is the through Brighton to South Devon train. After closure of the through Okehampton route in 1967 this continued until 1971 as a daily out and back Brighton-Exeter service hauled by two Hither Green based Class 33s. For the winter 1971/72 timetable a rather odd Saturdays only service by a WR three car DMMU was retained in the same paths west of Salisbury but without South Coast connection-the through train otherwise withdrawn and no mid-week service at all.

However from May 1972 a through train was restored Saturdays only using weekend spare Hastings DEMUs-initially two 6Bs in summer reducing to one 6B in winter, with various 6B and 6L permutations in successive timetables continuing until May 1976. The service then reverted to loco hauled operation using single or double Class 33s with an Oxted line commuter set. The first year of Hastings DEMU operation highlighted an interesting difference in WR and SR practices in that on the down journey the DEMU displayed the normal red roller blind tail light display, but on the up journey a conventional oil tail lamp was carried as the WR did not then recognise red roller blinds.

 

[nw1]

You can see the complete detail on the Timetable World site : Timetable World

They haven't got any Southern timetable after 1963, but the International section, and then Thomas Cooks Continental, has got its UK pages with the detail as well, for 1973, 1979 and 1989. Table 522 is the one you want.

Thanks for the Thomas Cook tip, didn't think to look at that.

They do, however, have WR timetables for 1965, 1967 and 1973 which cover this line. Also the ABC 1981 timetable has full London-area timetables, and includes part of the line IIRC (perhaps to Salisbury), enough to figure out the basic service pattern.

 

[Taunton]

Thanks for this. Really interesting. So, the Brighton was only one service a day - even though photos from the line e.g. on http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/exmouth-junction-to-honiton.html - often show the Brighton service. I think that's probably out of curiosity, as it was a bit of an oddity. Although it gave a (false impression) to me of it being a regular service

One of its oddball features was different rolling stock to the rest of the service. For some time it was worked from the Brighton end, out morning, back afternoon, by a Hastings narrow-bodied demu, sometimes 6-car, sometimes 12-car, which positioned early morning from St Leonards depot at Hastings to Brighton, to run the service. I never quite worked out how it operated at Brighton, where the only platform which served both directions east and west wasn't long enough for a 12-car train.

There was always a lot of naval personnel traffic between Portsmouth and Plymouth who used the service, both on duty and considerable family connections between the two places.

 

[Class800]

Thanks @Taunton and thanks everyone for the useful information and links

 

[nw1]

A service ran from Plymouth to Portsmouth Harbour on Fridays and Saturdays - 1417 on Friday, 0933 on Saturday with a return working on Saturday and Sunday.

And for a while, this ran every day Mon-Fri (50 + NSE-liveried Mk-II stock), from May 1986 to, I think, May 1989.

The diagramming for this was interesting, because (as came up in a thread over the summer) it was interworked with Waterloo-Exeters via a one-a-day Waterloo-Portsmouth fast and v.v. which was operated with a 50+Mk-II. The down service was something like 0925 out of Waterloo, the up service was around 1625 out of Guildford. Unlike the regular Waterloo-Portsmouth fasts, these skipped Haslemere.

 

[randyrippley]

There's a thread on here somewhere which discusses the problem of the Brighton trains having to switch between ETH and steam heat at Salisbury

 

[30907]

Just to clarify, the Brighton train (and the Cathedral occasional Portsmouths), ran via Bitterne not Botley.
Also, services from /to Plymouth were very limited or none most years: the stock for the main Waterloo sets was supplied by WR from Newton Abbot until it closed and then from Laira (Plymouth), and some of the positioning workings ran as passenger trains at the beginning and end of the day, but mostly that was it.

 

[swt_passenger]

I don’t remember any WTT passenger services over the Romsey to Eastleigh line in the 70s - 90s period, however I’d assume it always remained available for diversions during engineering works.

 

[30907]

I don’t remember any WTT passenger services over the Romsey to Eastleigh line in the 70s - 90s period, however I’d assume it always remained available for diversions during engineering works.

The last was the 0150ish Mails Eastleigh-Bristol IIRC, but there were some random weekday workings before the official reopening.
PSUL online would tell us!

 

[swt_passenger]

The last was the 0150ish Mails Eastleigh-Bristol IIRC, but there were some random weekday workings before the official reopening.
PSUL online would tell us!

Was that a passenger service? I wouldn’t have considered an overnight Mail as a part of the normal regular passenger offering, but I suppose it could be…

 

[30907]

Was that a passenger service? I wouldn’t have considered an overnight Mail as a part of the normal regular passenger offering, but I suppose it could be…

Yes, 1x BSK connecting out of the 2252 Waterloo Weymouth TPO.
In the other direction, it was the last train from Bristol to Bath, and I recall a friend telling me how useful it was when courting....

 

[Gloster]

Odd points. I think the change from XX.00 to XX.10 took place in May 1980 with the introduction of the Class 50 to the line.

One or two trains also skipped Crewkerne at times.

The article in #7 is the one I was thinking of.

In the early 1980s there was a loco-hauled train from the Bristol direction that arrived at Southampton at around 08.20 (second train of the day?) and then headed back to the Western Region via Eastleigh-Romsey to avoid running round in Southampton.

Newton Abbot carriage depot closed in 1980 or possibly early 1981.

The Brighton-Exeter was a 6H in winter and two 6H in summer. There was also a very late train from Basingstoke or Reading to Yeovil Junction on Sundays (arrival at Yeovil after midnight) that then ran ecs back to Salisbury. It was formed of a 3H DEMU.

Recollection is that the 21.45 Bristol ran as a passenger service and then as a parcels, returning as the 01.50. It wasn’t in the timetable as a passenger service, but I think it was run as an unadvertised one (officially or not). The 01.50 was the same, but at one time I think it started up as an advertised passenger train from Salisbury not long after 03.00.

 

[Class800]

In the early 1980s there was a loco-hauled train from the Bristol direction that arrived at Southampton at around 08.20 (second train of the day?) and then headed back to the Western Region via Eastleigh-Romsey to avoid running round in Southampton.

Makes sense - as with loco hauled stock it wasn't so easy to reverse as with units, unless you had locos at both ends

 

[JonathanH]

Makes sense - as with loco hauled stock it wasn't so easy to reverse as with units, unless you had locos at both ends

Locos at both ends is (apart from a handful of notable exceptions (eg Edinburgh to Glasgow with 27s, HSTs) a recent phenomenon, not something from historic times, when run round loops and release sidings existed.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Locos at both ends is (apart from a handful of notable exceptions (eg Edinburgh to Glasgow with 27s, HSTs) a recent phenomenon, not something from historic times, when run round loops and release sidings existed.

And shunters - or sometimes secondmen - were readily available to couple and uncouple.

 

[Class800]

But still a reversal would have taken a bit longer. May be one reason why through Plymouth services were quite limited until the 159s came in, as Waterloo to Plymouth via Salisbury and Exeter requires a reversal in Exeter St Davids - and with a loco, the adjacent line would presumably need to be free too, in order to run round the loco, i.e. taking 2 platforms not 1

 

[Gloster]

But still a reversal would have taken a bit longer. May be one reason why through Plymouth services were quite limited until the 159s came in, as Waterloo to Plymouth via Salisbury and Exeter requires a reversal in Exeter St Davids - and with a loco, the adjacent line would presumably need to be free too, in order to run round the loco, i.e. taking 2 platforms not 1

I think a reason for the lack of Waterloo trains continuing beyond Exeter was that the WR only wanted there to be one mainline. Plymouth was on the mainline from Paddington and Exeter-Waterloo was a secondary route: being split between two regions didn’t help. There was also the problem that parts of the Salisbury-Exeter section had been singled and timekeeping was erratic: the WR did not want to see the services beyond Exeter messed up by delayed trains off the Salisbury line.

 

[randyrippley]

Where on Waterloo - Exeter did the AWS change?
We're the locos dual fitted with both BR and GW? Or did they run unprotected?

 

[davetheguard]

Thanks for this. Really interesting. So, the Brighton was only one service a day - even though photos from the line e.g. on http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/exmouth-junction-to-honiton.html - often show the Brighton service. I think that's probably out of curiosity, as it was a bit of an oddity. Although it gave a (false impression) to me of it being a regular service

According to the book "Backtracking Around Plymouth, Tavistock North & the Southern Region main line to Okehampton" - not the snappiest title!- by Bernard Mills, "the Brighton was the most important train of the day on the route and also the longest, normally loading to 11 coaches including a Portsmouth portion attached/detached at Fareham." It also had a restaurant car.

I can recommend the book, it has some unusual, mainly colour, good quality pictures taken by the local railwayman author, and its interest is added to by the recent return of daily services to Okehampton from Exeter. As well as the main line it also includes the branch line from Bere Alston to Callington, the remnants of both put together now form the Gunnislake branch.

 

[Grecian 1998]

I think a reason for the lack of Waterloo trains continuing beyond Exeter was that the WR only wanted there to be one mainline. Plymouth was on the mainline from Paddington and Exeter-Waterloo was a secondary route: being split between two regions didn’t help. There was also the problem that parts of the Salisbury-Exeter section had been singled and timekeeping was erratic: the WR did not want to see the services beyond Exeter messed up by delayed trains off the Salisbury line.

That's my understanding - there simply wasn't any reason for a Plymouth - Waterloo service due to the time it would take. There was an up Plymouth - Waterloo via Southampton service on Saturdays in the 1991-92 timetable, but the fact it went via Southampton shows it really wasn't about the end-to-end journey time, which took 5h32m.

So, the Brighton was only one service a day - even though photos from the line e.g. on http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/exmouth-junction-to-honiton.html - often show the Brighton service. I think that's probably out of curiosity, as it was a bit of an oddity

That's usually the way - anyone looking at photos of the Heart of Wessex line over the last 20 years would probably think most services were loco-hauled or formed of HSTs, rather than the one service each way on summer Saturdays in reality.

The Exeter trains typically skipped Overton, Whitchurch and Grateley then called all stations to Honiton. Feniton, Whimple and Pinhoe had only occasional services. Also in the 60s and 70s it looks like many trains skipped Tisbury. Templecombe and Pinhoe were closed for a relatively short period, until 1983 IIRC.

That's correct AFAIK. Pinhoe had the fewest services of any station until 2004 - since then it's enjoyed a much better service than either Whimple or Feniton. The 1991-92 timetable shows two up trains on Sundays omitting Templecombe, one of which also omits Tisbury - otherwise everything is all stations Salisbury - Honiton.



The service was decelerated after the Warships were withdrawn in 1971 and replaced by the 33s, as the 33s weren't as powerful. It was then accelerated once the far more powerful 50s were introduced in 1980 and accelerated further after the swift-accelerating (well by 1993 standards) 159s were introduced. The fastest 1991-92 time I can find for a Waterloo-Exeter train calling all stations Salisbury - Honiton then fast to Exeter is 3h14m. In comparison the 159s when first introduced did it in just under 3 hours to Exeter Central (0835 and 1035 from Waterloo and 1549 from Exeter Central if I remember correctly).

There was in the summer 1995 timetable a 1015 Waterloo - Exeter which only called at Yeovil Junction, Honiton and Axminster between Salisbury and Exeter Central. It reached Exeter Central at 1301. I'm fairly sure that's the fastest ever scheduled service on the line.

The introduction of the 159s saw a number of services extended to Gillingham or Yeovil Junction, and more up AM and down PM peak services, although the service didn't become hourly as far as Yeovil Junction until 2004.

 

[Gloster]

Where on Waterloo - Exeter did the AWS change?
We're the locos dual fitted with both BR and GW? Or did they run unprotected?

I don’t think WR AWS was ever fitted to the route; I am not sure if it was fitted to any of the SR lines (and it was probably already on the way out when the WR took over west of Salisbury). WR locos (or many of them) were, I think, dual AWS fitted. If a 33 went south of Exeter, it probably just ran without AWS.

Pinhoe was closed 1966 to 1983.

According to my notes, the Brighton-Exeter was DEMU worked from 1972 to 1977.

 

[Cowley]

But still a reversal would have taken a bit longer. May be one reason why through Plymouth services were quite limited until the 159s came in, as Waterloo to Plymouth via Salisbury and Exeter requires a reversal in Exeter St Davids - and with a loco, the adjacent line would presumably need to be free too, in order to run round the loco, i.e. taking 2 platforms not 1

I’m trying to remember how it worked because I was there quite often. There was a 09:05 Brighton to Plymouth in 1991 which from what I remember arrived in platform 3 where the loco (booked for a 47/4) ran around - possibly through platform 4 but I’m not certain, before lining up next to an Exeter to Waterloo service that was booked to depart at the same time from platform 1.

Up until 1986/87 the Exeter to Brighton services were still class 33s with blue and grey mk1s and occasionally a Hastings gauge 33/2 would make it to Exeter on these services.

edit - Looking back through my books, in 1988 the 11:05 Exeter to Brighton was a service that produced all kinds of different 47s that year.

 

[Gloster]

Although for most of its years of operation the Brighton-Exeter was an an out-and-back working with stock supplied by the SR, I have a very faint (and possibly wrong) recollection that there was a period when it was inter-worked with the Waterloo-Exeters. An early Waterloo-Exeter went back to the SR as the Brighton, and the Brighton-Exeter went back to Waterloo. Not that difficult: in 1980 the Brighton’s stock started its day by running ecs from Clapham Junction to Brighton and ended it by running back from Brighton to Clapham.