West Yorkshire Bus Changes, July 2016

[61653 HTAFC]

A number of changes were made to West Yorkshire Bus routes this weekend. Of significance were the withdrawal of several early morning and late evening services, and the changes to the long-established X6 limited stop route from Huddersfield to Leeds via Bradford. This will no longer run between Huddersfield and Bradford, with the X63/363 increasing in frequency to compensate.

Full details here (.pdf format): http://www.wymetro.com/uploadedFiles/WYMetro/Content/travelnews/ServiceChanges/Service-changes.pdf

 

[Deerfold]

A number of changes were made to West Yorkshire Bus routes this weekend. Of significance were the withdrawal of several early morning and late evening services, and the changes to the long-established X6 limited stop route from Huddersfield to Leeds via Bradford. This will no longer run between Huddersfield and Bradford, with the X63/363 increasing in frequency to compensate.

Full details here (.pdf format): http://www.wymetro.com/uploadedFiles/WYMetro/Content/travelnews/ServiceChanges/Service-changes.pdf

Unfortunately if you use the Metro mobile website they've lost all the new "K" services despite me mentioning it yesterday.

Publicity around Keighley where there has been wholesale renumbering of buses to coincide with new vehicles has been dire - not even a poster in the bus station or info on any of the buses I've been on. Transdev Keighley told me this was because most people access bus information online.

Their new timetable leaflet contains numerous errors, including a summary for the 66 without mentioning it's only valid from September and with the K11 missing entirely.

The infrequent 517 Halifax - Heptonstall - Burnley service has been withdrawn after over 90 years of operation with one number or another.

 

[Andyh82]

The K services look to be working for me on the metro website, how long did you give them to fix it?

ransdev have produced a high quality booklet though with all local timetables in one, replacing individual leaflets, and a network map included as well.

I did notice the infrequent positioning journeys on the K11 are missed out though.

 

[Deerfold]

The K services look to be working for me on the metro website, how long did you give them to fix it?

Did you look on their mobile website? They're still not there. I'd hope bus timetables would be available before they change, not days afterwards.

ransdev have produced a high quality booklet though with all local timetables in one, replacing individual leaflets, and a network map included as well.

It's pretty but has a number of timing and spelling mistakes in. It was only available in the bus station from Thursday, with the online timetables only being on the Transdev website less than 6 days before the changes. For a major change like this, I'm disappointed.

I did notice the infrequent positioning journeys on the K11 are missed out though.

This seems rather pointless as the smaller leaflet Transdev have produced mentions the route (although incorrectly mentions the 710 and 711 instead of the 720 and 721 as previous route numbers). The bus station office couldn't even tell me when the K11 now runs (though it is online).

 

[Stan Drews]

Although the Keighley local services have been renumbered into a K series, the times are largely unchanged or very minor, with the exception of the Thwaites Brow (705/K5) service.
Fairly sure the K11 times are exactly the same as the old 721.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The Keighley Kxx services are listed on the .pdf linked in the OP.

 

[Andyh82]

Although the Keighley local services have been renumbered into a K series, the times are largely unchanged or very minor, with the exception of the Thwaites Brow (705/K5) service.
Fairly sure the K11 times are exactly the same as the old 721.

Indeed, and the Keighley network is fairly straight forward so even if you didn't know about the changes, your local bus stop probably has one route going the same way as normal, just with a different number, and returns from the same stand at the Bus Station at the same time as normal.

Changes have been more major in Leeds with many secondary First routes being chopped and changed, mostly for the good it has to be said. Due to budget cuts Metro don't provide a printed copy of the service changes leaflet anymore.

 

[AndyHudds]

A number of changes were made to West Yorkshire Bus routes this weekend. Of significance were the withdrawal of several early morning and late evening services, and the changes to the long-established X6 limited stop route from Huddersfield to Leeds via Bradford. This will no longer run between Huddersfield and Bradford, with the X63/363 increasing in frequency to compensate.

Full details here (.pdf format): http://www.wymetro.com/uploadedFiles/WYMetro/Content/travelnews/ServiceChanges/Service-changes.pdf

Symptomatic of bus companies doing what they want when they want. Withdrawal of more evening services, is it any wonder that bis usership is declining?

I really don't get the withdrawal of the X6 service from Huddersfield either? What's the reasoning behind that then?

 

[Stan Drews]

Indeed, and the Keighley network is fairly straight forward so even if you didn't know about the changes, your local bus stop probably has one route going the same way as normal, just with a different number, and returns from the same stand at the Bus Station at the same time as normal

I suspect the locals are more likely to notice the new buses.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Symptomatic of bus companies doing what they want when they want. Withdrawal of more evening services, is it any wonder that bis usership is declining?

I really don't get the withdrawal of the X6 service from Huddersfield either? What's the reasoning behind that then?

I think it's to improve reliability between Leeds and Bradford. Also perhaps First feel that there's very few through passengers that run the whole route from Huddersfield to Leeds. After all if I was making that journey by bus I'd use Arriva's 229 (which is quicker and has WiFi) or 203 (which also has WiFi). Though even the slowest train (via Bradford) is quicker than the X6.

 

[Deerfold]

Although the Keighley local services have been renumbered into a K series, the times are largely unchanged or very minor, with the exception of the Thwaites Brow (705/K5) service.
Fairly sure the K11 times are exactly the same as the old 721.

It still doesn't seem to be good costumer service to not provide posters about the changes. If you picked up a leaflet which puported to contain all the local bus routes but did not contain one that used to run a couple of times a day, would you assume it was unchanged or withdrawn?

Until these changes most routes with prefix letters were school routes which did not take local passengers.

 

[Andyh82]

Symptomatic of bus companies doing what they want when they want. Withdrawal of more evening services, is it any wonder that bis usership is declining?

I really don't get the withdrawal of the X6 service from Huddersfield either? What's the reasoning behind that then?

Withdrawal of evening services isn't a key feature of these service changes. I'm not sure where the OP is coming from on that one, if you were to bullet point the main changes, that would probably be a footnote at the bottom.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Withdrawal of evening services isn't a key feature of these service changes. I'm not sure where the OP is coming from on that one, if you were to bullet point the main changes, that would probably be a footnote at the bottom.

I don't know, nearly every First service listed in the changes leaflet sees the first couple of morning services and the last evening service canned. This is something that First have been doing for several years; the last buses used to be at or just after 11pm, now many are barely after 10pm, with evening frequencies cut right back.

At every timetable change they seem to be cutting evening services on a route "due to low use", which isn't a surprise when most last buses are now before last orders at the pub or, more importantly, before an 8pm cinema screening ends. If you can't get home from the cinema on the bus you won't go to the cinema on the bus.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I don't know, nearly every First service listed in the changes leaflet sees the first couple of morning services and the last evening service canned. This is something that First have been doing for several years; the last buses used to be at or just after 11pm, now many are barely after 10pm, with evening frequencies cut right back.

At every timetable change they seem to be cutting evening services on a route "due to low use", which isn't a surprise when most last buses are now before last orders at the pub or, more importantly, before an 8pm cinema screening ends. If you can't get home from the cinema on the bus you won't go to the cinema on the bus.

I know that I've said this before but it's part of a wider problem. We have a number of social challenges and changes (and bus services exist and are affected in that world):

• You can buy 8 cans for a fiver in a supermarket so why go to the pub? No surprise that there are fewer passengers with fewer pubs
• We relaxed licensing hours so instead of concentrating the evening trade, it was fragmented/diluted
• The continued move of cinemas etc from "in town" central locations to peripheral "out of town" locations

As an example, I know a driver who has worked for some time for what is now an Arriva subsidiary. They worked an evening service that on Mon-Wed was fairly quiet (run under CC subsidy) but washed its face on the other nights. Moreover, the late run back (at 2300 Fri and Sat) was often very busy with 30 passengers on a vinyl seated National.

Now that service never changed for years from c.1981 until 2011. No messing around with times and whilst the rolling stock aged (with the hiatus on new vehicles at dereg), it did get new stock in the early 1990s. Yet in 25 years, the trade declined markedly. Why?

Well, arguably the cost of fares (but remember this was before ENCTS had the impact of hiking single fares). Instead, it was an area money is tight and people going to the pub just couldn't afford it, and for those that could, the number of places staying open later meant what volume was concentrated in a small time window just got spread over a longer period.

I would point out that conversely, Sunday trading now sees many services with much, much better levels of service than was ever experienced in the past

 

[Tetchytyke]

I'd agree about the rise of out-of-town leisure complexes. Just as you won't go to the cinema on the bus if you leave after the last bus, you also won't if you have to take three buses to get there in the first place.

It's a bit less of an issue in West Yorkshire though. Leeds is thriving as an evening destination, with shopping staying open late, and both Bradford and Halifax have in the last few years seen huge new city centre cinema/leisure complexes open. Halifax's big cinema is literally over the road from the bus station. Yet the evening frequencies in all those cities getting cut year-on-year, with last buses running earlier and earlier. I've seen routes in Bradford go from 3bph when I was a child to 2bph, with some of them now at 1bph.

I think it is a bit of a chicken-and-egg with later opening hours. If you know the evening buses are hourly and the last bus is 40 minutes before 11pm last orders you're going to plan to take a taxi home, and if you're planning to take a taxi home then you're going to take a taxi/lift to town and you're also going to leave when you want.

11pm last buses never catered for the clubbers anyway. Nightbuses did. I can understand why later opening killed off nightbuses in most cities- Bradford and Leeds had nightbuses well into the mid-90s, but they're all gone now- but I think frequency and last bus cuts actually did the evening trade. First, in particular, are devils for looking at each service in isolation, then getting confused when they find that the withdrawal of these marginal late services means they lose day and weekly ticket custom during the daytime.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I'd agree about the rise of out-of-town leisure complexes. Just as you won't go to the cinema on the bus if you leave after the last bus, you also won't if you have to take three buses to get there in the first place.

It's a bit less of an issue in West Yorkshire though. Leeds is thriving as an evening destination, with shopping staying open late, and both Bradford and Halifax have in the last few years seen huge new city centre cinema/leisure complexes open. Halifax's big cinema is literally over the road from the bus station. Yet the evening frequencies in all those cities getting cut year-on-year, with last buses running earlier and earlier. I've seen routes in Bradford go from 3bph when I was a child to 2bph, with some of them now at 1bph.

I think it is a bit of a chicken-and-egg with later opening hours. If you know the evening buses are hourly and the last bus is 40 minutes before 11pm last orders you're going to plan to take a taxi home, and if you're planning to take a taxi home then you're going to take a taxi/lift to town and you're also going to leave when you want.

11pm last buses never catered for the clubbers anyway. Nightbuses did. I can understand why later opening killed off nightbuses in most cities- Bradford and Leeds had nightbuses well into the mid-90s, but they're all gone now- but I think frequency and last bus cuts actually did the evening trade. First, in particular, are devils for looking at each service in isolation, then getting confused when they find that the withdrawal of these marginal late services means they lose day and weekly ticket custom during the daytime.

I can't claim to know the individual characteristics of the West Yorkshire market. However, if you accept that a major part of evening travel is people going out socialising (i.e. Drinking) then some rather sobering (!) stats

The amount we drink per capita has decreased by 18% from 2004-14. Beer sales dropped by 30% but when looking at the split between off and on trade, the on trade has dropped by 54% in that time. The smoking ban has had a pronounced impact on that. Hence why the net number of pubs has fallen by 15% in that time.

Then factor in that 24 hr licensing was brought in during 2005 and suddenly there is more chance of later drinking without heading to some dreadful Ritzy! These factors have hit the bus industry and, of course, evening tenders have been an easy cut for cash strapped LAs.

On the flip side, the growth of Sunday trading now means we have much higher levels of service in many areas (at least during the day). Unless you're in Yeovil, Shrewsbury or Tredegar.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Withdrawal of evening services isn't a key feature of these service changes. I'm not sure where the OP is coming from on that one, if you were to bullet point the main changes, that would probably be a footnote at the bottom.

The evening cuts probably aren't as severe as I initially made out, but as I read through Metro's .pdf I did notice a lot of services listed where the only changes were withdrawal of early and late journeys.

Sunday trading is an odd one, it's been with us for 30 years or so now but outside of core routes the bus industry still hasn't caught up- even trains haven't- in West Yorkshire many local services are still only bi-hourly with late starts and early finishes. This is set to change with the new Northern and TPE franchises, and not before time.

 

[Tetchytyke]

On the flip side, the growth of Sunday trading now means we have much higher levels of service in many areas (at least during the day). Unless you're in Yeovil, Shrewsbury or Tredegar.

..or West Yorkshire. Round Bradford and Halifax Sunday bus services are no better than they were when I was a kid 20 years ago.

yes, I know that's still better than Shrewsbury

Truth be told, I think evening buses have always been marginal, it's just that First (in particular) are no longer interested in the network coherence that they provide. You see that with some routes in Bradford and Halifax that have a 10-minute headway during the day which drops to hourly, or worse, as soon as 7pm comes round.

 

[Andyh82]

The evening cuts probably aren't as severe as I initially made out, but as I read through Metro's .pdf I did notice a lot of services listed where the only changes were withdrawal of early and late journeys.
e.

Having just scanned through them, alot of them seem to be late journeys heading the wrong way, like the last bus back into town from the terminus that few would use, rather than the last bus from town which all the discussion above is assuming.

The 23:25 from suburb to city centre has probably never had anyone on.

 

[Deerfold]

When the Halifax nightbuses were withdrawn First said it was because of lack of use. I regularly used the 0220 towards Hebden Bridge. It was regularly full and standing on a double decker. The fare was a fixed £1.20 which was twice my day fare to Sowerby Bridge, but the sane as the day fare to Hebden Bridge. I'd have far rather seen a fare rise as a taxi was three times the price.

 

[bradford758]

A number of changes were made to West Yorkshire Bus routes this weekend. Of significance were the withdrawal of several early morning and late evening services, and the changes to the long-established X6 limited stop route from Huddersfield to Leeds via Bradford. This will no longer run between Huddersfield and Bradford, with the X63/363 increasing in frequency to compensate.

Full details here (.pdf format): http://www.wymetro.com/uploadedFiles/WYMetro/Content/travelnews/ServiceChanges/Service-changes.pdf

Many of the journeys cut are morning positioning journeys or late evening journeys back to town (Bradford). I can't see much money being saved (unless drivers are paid less when not in service).

X6 became unreliable, with delays in Leeds meaning a poor service on the Huddersfield leg v. v.

Sent from my 4009X using Tapatalk

 

[Tetchytyke]

When the Halifax nightbuses were withdrawn First said it was because of lack of use. I regularly used the 0220 towards Hebden Bridge. It was regularly full and standing on a double decker. The fare was a fixed £1.20 which was twice my day fare to Sowerby Bridge, but the sane as the day fare to Hebden Bridge. I'd have far rather seen a fare rise as a taxi was three times the price.

We saw that in Newcastle when Stagecoach got rid of the nightbuses. There used to be 4bph down the West Road, but that was the only service. They ramped the fares up and changed it so they had three routes in the city; unfortunately it meant they were all hourly as they used the same two buses.

It failed, custom fell off a cliff (and they weren't lying, it really did). A taxi was still 2-3 times the price of the bus, but groups started using taxis instead. It was a shame, as the real benefit to me was not having to queue for a taxi, but on an hourly route that benefit went too.

Many of the journeys cut are morning positioning journeys or late evening journeys back to town (Bradford). I can't see much money being saved (unless drivers are paid less when not in service).

X6 became unreliable, with delays in Leeds meaning a poor service on the Huddersfield leg v. v.

I can see money being saved in Bradford, as the depot is well out of the city centre. But in Halifax the bus depot is right in the town centre and in Huddersfield most buses would have to pass through the town centre to get to Old Fieldhouse Lane anyway.

As for the X6, I think splitting it is the right call, traffic congestion was making the service horrendously unreliable. You can still buy through single tickets and very few people would travel across Bradford anyway.

 

[Andyh82]

The Bradford depot is right in the city centre, probably closer than Halifax is, and definitely closer than Huddersfield's.

Withdrawing late night return buses, they can just run straight down the main road and straight to the depot, no need to wait for timing points, follow the set route, or enter the town centre and the bus station.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The Bradford depot is right in the city centre

Bowling Back Lane is many things, but it isn't the city centre!

 

[Andyh82]

Bowling Back Lane is many things, but it isn't the city centre!

Well yes it's not located on the Main Street between Boots and Argos, but it's hardly 'way out' either. The staff bus takes about 3 mins to get there from the Interchange.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

When the Halifax nightbuses were withdrawn First said it was because of lack of use. I regularly used the 0220 towards Hebden Bridge. It was regularly full and standing on a double decker. The fare was a fixed £1.20 which was twice my day fare to Sowerby Bridge, but the sane as the day fare to Hebden Bridge. I'd have far rather seen a fare rise as a taxi was three times the price.

What year were the Halifax nightbuses axed? As I do recall Leeds losing the 921, 927 and 928 nightbuses around five / six years back. Th eonly service that you could call a nightbus is the 1 (Beeston to Holt Park).

Shame that the 517's been scrapped.

 

[Deerfold]

What year were the Halifax nightbuses axed? As I do recall Leeds losing the 921, 927 and 928 nightbuses around five / six years back. Th eonly service that you could call a nightbus is the 1 (Beeston to Holt Park).

Shame that the 517's been scrapped.

It must have been before 2001 as that's when I moved away from West Yorkshire for a while. I suspect it was by 1999. I think it may have been at the same time as Leeds lost the 922-926 night services.

Actually, I think they went, along with one of Halifax's 3 night services, in the mid 90s. There was then a short-lived Leeds-Bradford-Halifax service (roughly 72+681 I think) that didn't connect with any of the remaining Leeds or Halifax night services (£1 unless went you through Bradford when it was £2). Bradford's 938 was withdrawn much earlier.

 

[BlndBnt]

Am currently sat on the x63, from Huddersfield towards Bradford.
I make the Huddersfield to Bradford bus journey twice a week, leaving Bradford on the 363 bus at 2112. I have been making this same journey for quite a few years now.

If it hadn't been for St George's square being full of tents, resulting in me having to catch the bus at the bus station, I would never had discovered the changes.

Obviously being registered blind, posters etc wouldn't have been much use to me personally, but not even any bus drivers had mentioned anything about the changes in the days/weeks before the change.

I'm going to download the link mentioned in OP and try to figure out how this affects my journey.

Thanks for posting about this

 

[bradford758]

There hasn't been much released about the Huddersfield to Bradford services.
Changes as far as I know.
The 363 does not run at all during the day approx 0700 to 1800.
The new X63 runs approx 0700 to 1800 along the former X6 route, (apart from between Fartown and Low Moor uses all stops).


Sent from my 4009X using Tapatalk

 

[Tetchytyke]

The 363 does not run at all during the day approx 0700 to 1800.
The new X63 runs approx 0700 to 1800 along the former X6 route, (apart from between Fartown and Low Moor uses all stops).

The 363 becoming the X63 was a change that happened a couple of years ago.

Half the Huddersfield-Bradford buses were X6 and half X63. All that's changed is that they are now all X63.