Weymouth Tramway

[CromptonLad]

Hi guys,

Does anyone know if Weymouth Tramway used anything other than 73s and 33/1s between 1968 and 1987, and why it ultimately closed?

Also: was there ever a 'dedicated loco' to Weymouth and the tramway, or did they always return back to Eastleigh/London on a daily basis?

 

[Ash Bridge]

Hi guys,

Does anyone know if Weymouth Tramway used anything other than 73s and 33/1s between 1968 and 1987, and why it ultimately closed?

Also: was there ever a 'dedicated loco' to Weymouth and the tramway, or did they always return back to Eastleigh/London on a daily basis?

I think a class 03 shunter was also used on occasion within that period.

Edit: just found a shot after searching on google of a class 118 dmu at the harbour end.

 

[simonw]

Hi guys,

Does anyone know if Weymouth Tramway used anything other than 73s and 33/1s between 1968 and 1987, and why it ultimately closed?

Also: was there ever a 'dedicated loco' to Weymouth and the tramway, or did they always return back to Eastleigh/London on a daily basis?

Yes:


http://simonwhittinghamphotography.zenfolio.com/p823439957/h1c740ddc#h1c740ddc

 

[CromptonLad]

Thanks for the photos Simon; the 03 info much appreciated Ash

Do we know why it ultimately closed?

 

[SpacePhoenix]

For it to ever be used again (which would probably be never) would all the tracked need to be replaced or would the ultrasonic train get run over it and just sections it highlights getting replaced?

 

[Ash Bridge]

Thanks for the photos Simon; the 03 info much appreciated Ash

Do we know why it ultimately closed?

I was thinking could it have been related to the introduction of the 442's which replaced the REP/4TC/33's etc. on Weymouth services at a similar time to the closure of the tramway, but I've just read in a book that 442's were cleared for the Quay branch, so if that's the case I don't really know the official reason.

 

[DT611]

Do we know why it ultimately closed?

Probably the same as many other similar harbour links? The boat traffic declined? Or the boats moved away? Genuinely don't know, i'm just guessing.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

It might have also been down to the amount of traffic on the roads, the road(s) that it runs along are quite busy with cars and with pedestrians in the summer (especially by the fish & chip shop just by the lifting bridge

 

[Rick1984]

I was recently looking at this branch and noted that their is a restricted height sign for the archway under the Town Bridge. (Lifting bridge)

I imagine the clearance for a train passing through must be pretty right. Can't find any images of a train going thorough unfortunately.

 

[Ash Bridge]

I was recently looking at this branch and noted that their is a restricted height sign for the archway under the Town Bridge. (Lifting bridge)

I imagine the clearance for a train passing through must be pretty right. Can't find any images of a train going thorough unfortunately.

I noticed this, was it just 12' 6"? Yet a class 33 is over 12' 8" the max height of the arch is probably over 13' directly over the rails so no doubt this restriction is only applicable to taller road vehicles which if are not absolutely aligned with the rails when passing under will foul the arch?

 

[SpacePhoenix]

I was recently looking at this branch and noted that their is a restricted height sign for the archway under the Town Bridge. (Lifting bridge)

I imagine the clearance for a train passing through must be pretty right. Can't find any images of a train going thorough unfortunately.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/71092681@N07/21766156566/

It looks very tight for clearance

 

[30907]

I think a class 03 shunter was also used on occasion within that period.

Edit: just found a shot after searching on google of a class 118 dmu at the harbour end.

The 03s were the regular locos from about 1963 when they replaced pannier tanks until replacement by 33s in the mid 70s.

 

[CromptonLad]

Much appreciated gents, thanks for the input. A small but historically fascinating little branch line. A shame it doesn't run today -and that my beloved Bagpipes don't go there.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/71092681@N07/21766156566/

It looks very tight for clearance

You've also demonstrated another class using the branch, thus further answering the OP's questions.

Now a question of my own: It is stated earlier in the thread that 442s were cleared for the branch. Was one ever actually dragged along it, even if just for a proving run and not in service?

 

[Ash Bridge]

You've also demonstrated another class using the branch, thus further answering the OP's questions.

Now a question of my own: It is stated earlier in the thread that 442s were cleared for the branch. Was one ever actually dragged along it, even if just for a proving run and not in service?

I've just looked again at the publication where I found that information (Railways to the Coast, by Michael H C Baker) but there is no further detail beyond that statement, I have also checked other southern related books in my collection but to no avail, can anyone else enlighten us?

 

[SpacePhoenix]

http://railthing.blogspot.co.uk/2011/01/weymouths-tramway.html

Is that an old "Thumper" unit?

 

[Hornet]

Thanks for the photos Simon; the 03 info much appreciated Ash

Do we know why it ultimately closed?

Technically the Tramway is OOU. It has never gone through a formal closure procedure.

"25 March 2011
Our Ref: STNC/G1/2011/WESX/001/V1 (formerly NC/G1/2011/WESX/001)

Dear Sir or Madam
Proposed G1 Network Change Variation: Weymouth Tramway
Permanent ‘Out of Use’ to be changed to a Short Term ‘Out of Use’
Renamed STNC/G1/2011/WESX/001/V1
Supersedes NC/G1/2011/WESX/001
Further to the Network Change notice issued in accordance with Condition G1.1 of
the Network Code on 12 January 2011, this amendment constitutes a formal
variation to that proposal for a Network Change under that Condition.
Network Rail wishes to implement the Network Change described above and is
required under Condition G1 to give notice of its proposal to the parties shown on the
attached distribution list. Condition G2 allows all affected train operators to consider
the scheme and bring to Network Rail's attention any matters that concern them
regarding the change. Train Operators may also assess the impact of the proposed
change on their business and inform Network Rail what the direct costs and benefits
of implementing the change are likely to be (if any).
This Network Change notice outlines Network Rail’s proposal to classify the
Weymouth Tramway from Melcombe Regis Level Crossing to Weymouth Quay
station permanently ‘out of use.’ The variation consists in changing the permanent
‘out of use’ to a Short Term Network Change with a duration of two years. The
Complex Projects Procedure is not being used in connection with this proposal.
A detailed specification of the scheme is set out in Appendix A to the notification
letter and included an excerpt from the Sectional Appendix showing the affected
area. Appendix A to this letter details the variation to the Network Change
Notification. Network Rail is proposing this change to replace the existing Short
Term Network Change, currently in place until 19 February 2011.
In accordance with Condition G1.2(c), Network Rail is seeking comments from you
and the persons listed in the attached distribution list to establish whether or not you
are content for the change to be implemented. We invite you to consider the
proposed scheme and forward your comments to us by 6 May 2011. If a formal
response is not received by this date, it will be deemed that you accept the proposal
without compensation."

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse... stncg12011wesx001 variation notification.pdf

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse... use/v2c ncg12011wesx001v2 gbrf rejection.pdf

I believe the above situation with the Tramway still stands today.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

http://railthing.blogspot.co.uk/2011/01/weymouths-tramway.html

Is that an old "Thumper" unit?

Yes it is; it's a class 205 - the caption indicates it's on a railtour in 1975, so I wonder what else that we haven't already listed in this thread might have gone down there on tours over the years...

 

[Ash Bridge]

Yes it is; it's a class 205 - the caption indicates it's on a railtour in 1975, so I wonder what else that we haven't already listed in this thread might have gone down there on tours over the years...

It's surprising, the more you dig...

I found photographic evidence of a Class 31 on the quay, a Hastings DEMU, Metro-Cammell 101 & Derby lightweight 108 DMU's plus at least two more shots of different class 37's including a great shot of 37407 Blackpool Tower literally squeezing its way along the quayside with a rake of Regional Railways mk2 stock, (check out hondawanderer.com/37Weymouth_Quay_1995.htm) looking at this surely anything larger would be out of the question, shots of a 442 though remain elusive, the nearest a mk3 has got looks to be the stabling of the GWR HST on the stub of the line when laying over on the summer weekend service.

 

[30907]

I think I recall seeing a photo of an Ivatt 2MTT on the tramway pre 67.

I also have a vague memory that work had to be done to alow the 33s down it, but whether that was clearance or strengthening I'm not sure.

At any rate the line was cleared for anything to C1 loading gauge so there's no reason why dmmus shouldn't have gone down there - in fact I think there was a booked Quay-Junction-Town-Bristol (and vv) working for a bit.

Going back to the OP, the 03s didn't stray from Weymouth unnecessarily owing to their limited speed, and there must have been basic servicing facilities even after the shed proper closed.

 

[Ash Bridge]

I think I recall seeing a photo of an Ivatt 2MTT on the tramway pre 67.

I also have a vague memory that work had to be done to alow the 33s down it, but whether that was clearance or strengthening I'm not sure.

At any rate the line was cleared for anything to C1 loading gauge so there's no reason why dmmus shouldn't have gone down there - in fact I think there was a booked Quay-Junction-Town-Bristol (and vv) working for a bit.

Going back to the OP, the 03s didn't stray from Weymouth unnecessarily owing to their limited speed, and there must have been basic servicing facilities even after the shed proper closed.

Yes, I too noticed a shot while searching of a tank loco running bunker first, I was thinking Ivatt or BR Standard, I don't suppose any tender classes were permitted down there?

 

[Castle Cary]

Back in the late fifties and early sixties, I remember long trains of 'Perpots' - i.e. vans of perishable produce, largely Jersey potato, coming up through Castle Cary most Spring evenings.

I always understood that these originated on the Quay. Invariably these were 'Hall' hauled, but I always assumed that the Hall did not traverse the tramway.

And in my own memory of seeing, and the photographs that I have also seen of the WR Mark 1 stock on the 'Channel islands Boat Train' a pannier always took that train over the tramway, so I assume that the Perpots were similarly powered.

The latter up train was involved in an unusual signalling arrangement. It called at Frome, and from there the branch train (a pannier plus a coach or two) provided the connection to Bristol. The branch train therefore carried express headlamps, and had the four bells express designator between signal boxes, even though it called at all stations as did all the other services.

 

[Taunton]

Until the Class 03 diesel shunters came along about 1964 the Quay lines were worked by three special lightweight GWR 0-6-0 pannier tanks Nos 1367-1369, which handled trains to and from the main line junction. In addition to the boat trains to the passenger steamers there were railway-owned freighters as well, which berthed immediately upstream of the passenger vessel and discharged into rail vans on the quay. Much of the inward freight was flowers and vegetables, while outward freight was general merchandise to the islands.

The Ivatt 2-6-2 tanks had taken over from Southern O2 locos, and were used on the Portland branch and other local work, which seems to have included enthusiast excursions over the Quay lines.

 

[John Webb]

Until the Class 03 diesel shunters came along about 1964 the Quay lines were worked by three special lightweight GWR 0-6-0 pannier tanks Nos 1367-1369.......

I visited Weymouth in August 1963 and saw a pannier (number not available) on a passenger train and an 03 (D2082) shunting wagons.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

At any rate the line was cleared for anything to C1 loading gauge so there's no reason why dmmus shouldn't have gone down there - in fact I think there was a booked Quay-Junction-Town-Bristol (and vv) working for a bit.

Would C1 loading gauge have ever allowed any a4x or 15x classes to run along the tramway?

 

[Taunton]

As well as the perishables freight, which was given up when the cargo vessels were moved to Poole or Southampton, the last freight on the quay line was tank wagons of oil fuel for refuelling the passenger ships, which were taken along when the ship was laying over between voyages, maybe once a week.

 

[CromptonLad]

The more we know....!

I was aware of the 13XX Panniers - 1369 etc, but hadn't been aware of DMUs or the afct that the line was infact wholly C1 loading gauge [the bridge that leads to the quayside suggests a tight fit?]

I have seen that photo of the Ivatt 2-6-2 and was surprised but if they could go down it, then it would be no surprise many light-mediumweight locos could make it.

I am now curious as to what work was needed to enable to allow the 33/1s to work it?

Thanks for all the info - muchly appreciated ladies and gents

 

[Taunton]

I think the work to improve loading gauge was done in the late 1930s by the GWR. Bear in mind that the GWR coaching stock was the widest of the four main groups; someone will be along soon I'm sure with the figures for whether it was C1 or even more. Until this work was done it was I understand the curve radius rather than the dimensions was the issue, and larger old-GW departmental rolling stock could be seen into the 1960s with "wXq" marked on the side - not to run on Weymouth Quay. I believe until the work was done that passenger trains, whilst changing locomotives at the junction, had shunters going along parting gangway connections and loosening screw couplings so the train could negotiate the tight curves.

The 1369 group of Panniers had bells fitted which had to be rung while traversing the tramway, and I think the work on the Class 33 was just the ability to carry a portable bell on the locomotive, notwithstanding which the trains were preceded by the aforementioned shunters, on foot, now blowing whistles piercingly, waving red flags, and manhandling badly-parked cars out of the way, one or more of which ALWAYS seemed to be present for every manoeuvre, including where the owner would repark foul immediately after the train had passed, and it had to be moved again when the loco returned light!

Ah, happy holiday memories. Anyone remember the miniature railway (10" gauge) which used to run round a balloon loop in the park at Weymouth?

http://www.worldrailfans.info/7.25inch/WeymouthMR.shtml

We have a fine old photo in our family album of my grandfather's car being hoisted, by crane, from the quayside onto the passenger steamer, where in pre-car ferry days they were just placed on the open passenger deck to be craned off at Jersey, a favoured holiday destination from Taunton in those times. Alas no train in view.

 

[341o2]

I would be interested as well, curvature of part of the line was relaxed by harbout infill, but this happened in the 1930's.

upon being displaced by diesels, the 136x Panniers went to Wadebridge, where it had been found that they could negotiate the curves on the Wenford branch, causing the withdrawal of the Beattie well tanks, retained as few locomotives could negotiate this line.

1369 currently preserved, and unless noved in the last couple of months is on loan to the Chinnor and Princes Risborough railway

 

[30907]

think the work on the Class 33 was just the ability to carry a portable bell on the locomotive, notwithstanding which the trains were preceded by the aforementioned shunters, on foot, now blowing whistles piercingly, waving red flags, and manhandling badly-parked cars out of the way, one or more of which ALWAYS seemed to be present for every manoeuvre, including where the owner would repark foul immediately after the train had passed, and it had to be moved again when the loco returned light!

Ah, happy holiday memories. Anyone remember the miniature railway (10" gauge) which used to run round a balloon loop in the park at Weymouth?.

I remember the 33 with a flashing orange light and/or preceded by a police car with blues.

And yes, I've been on the Radipole Lake line...