What is the shortest minimum connection time (MCT) in the whole of the National Rail network?

[miklcct]

Is there a station with minimum connection time (MCT) being 1 minute? If not, what's the minimum MCT within the whole network, and are there any connections which actually take advantage of such MCT to have a seamless connection?

Moreover, is it physically to have a timed connection to have a 0-minutes MCT by running two trains into an island platform simultaneously, exchange passengers and depart immediately?

 

[Ianno87]

Thorpe-le-Soken has a minimum connection time of 1 minute, because all interchanges are cross-platform (between Clacton/Walton trains)

 

[Robertj21a]

?? MCT ?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Are there any locations (on Southern) with minimum connection times of less than 3 minutes?

 

[miklcct]

Thorpe-le-Soken has a minimum connection time of 1 minute, because all interchanges are cross-platform (between Clacton/Walton trains)

Thank you - do you have experience changing trains at the station? In case if one train is delayed, will the other train wait for the delayed train to come in order to exchange passengers?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Thank you - do you have experience changing trains at the station? In case if one train is delayed, will the other train wait for the delayed train to come in order to exchange passengers?

Believe that trains from off the Clacton branch (which normally then run semi-fast towards Colchester and beyond) are normally always timetabled to "overtake" trains from off the Walton branch (which normally call at all stations) after they pass each other at Thorpe le Soken. No doubt there could be exceptions.

 

[ServerHoster]

Stourbridge Junction's minimum connection time is 2 minutes

 

[LRV3004]

?? MCT ?

Minimum Connection Time.

I remember in the old National Timetables, where all the stations were listed on the pink pages, a black square with a white number in next to a station name denoted the minimum connection time for a train to be classed as a connection. For example, say Preston had a “10” in the box next to it on the pink pages, if your connecting train was due out 9 minutes after you arrived off another train, it wasn’t technically a connection even though you could probably make it easily.
There was a footnote saying that if no number appeared next to a station name, then the minimum connection time was 5 minutes.

 

[306024]

Thank you - do you have experience changing trains at the station? In case if one train is delayed, will the other train wait for the delayed train to come in order to exchange passengers?

Yes made the connection at Thorpe quite a few times over the years. Not surprisingly it depends on the size of the delay. Towards London the trains have only come a few miles so are rarely late anyway. From London the Walton train won't wait if it delays its return working, although GA have become less flexible with their connection policy in recent years.

A 0 minute connection would be half a minute in practice if anyone attempted that, but would require Red Arrows precision and only passengers named Usain Bolt would be allowed to travel.

 

[Class 170101]

A 0 minute connection would be half a minute in practice if anyone attempted that, but would require Red Arrows precision and only passengers named Usain Bolt would be allowed to travel.

Or stick their foot in the door.

 

[_toommm_]

Minimum Connection Time.

I remember in the old National Timetables, where all the stations were listed on the pink pages, a black square with a white number in next to a station name denoted the minimum connection time for a train to be classed as a connection. For example, say Preston had a “10” in the box next to it on the pink pages, if your connecting train was due out 9 minutes after you arrived off another train, it wasn’t technically a connection even though you could probably make it easily.
There was a footnote saying that if no number appeared next to a station name, then the minimum connection time was 5 minutes.

You can always check BRTimes now for station connection times, including fixed links e.g. the time given to connect from Manchester Victoria to Manchester Piccadilly.

 

[etr221]

I remember on the London Underground, there were a number of stations where cross platform interchanges were made, and there were signs reminding guards of this, and that they should wait if necessary to make the connection.

 

[ABB125]

Believe that trains from off the Clacton branch (which normally then run semi-fast towards Colchester and beyond) are normally always timetabled to "overtake" trains from off the Walton branch (which normally call at all stations) after they pass each other at Thorpe le Soken. No doubt there could be exceptions.

That's very interesting, I didn't know that! Thanks

 

[alistairlees]

Sutton has a minimum connection time of 1 minute for Thameslink to Thameslink. It’s because they are actually the same train going round the Sutton loop.

 

[LRV3004]

You can always check BRTimes now for station connection times, including fixed links e.g. the time given to connect from Manchester Victoria to Manchester Piccadilly.

Oh yes, the advancement of technology has come on in leaps and bounds since the days of the National Timetable “bible”!

 

[Watershed]

High Wycombe is probably the most unusual example of a short MCT. It's just 1 minute.

That's clearly intended to allow an official connection from a High Wycombe terminator to an Oxford/Aylesbury/Birmingham service despite the 2 minute public differential ("fiddle" time) that's applied to the arrival time of the terminator.

However, due to the skipstopping nature of the Chiltern timetable, there are journeys where you will be advised to make a 1 minute connection from a northbound service to a southbound one and vice versa. For anyone that's not familiar with the layout, the station is in a cutting and the two platforms are offset from each other:



The stopping points are right at the extreme end of the platforms, and doors close up to 30 seconds before departure. So you have essentially no chance of making a one minute connection, even if you know what you're doing and the trains are on time, if you are unlucky enough to be changing from one short train to another.

You would have to manage a 200m sprint up and down a footbridge and along two platforms in less than 30 seconds.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

What journeys would you be making a northbound to southbound connection on at High Wycombe? I’m sure there are some tiny edge cases, but the northbound Wycombe terminator to the northbound Oxford/Birmingham express is such a useful connection I figure you need that facility.

 

[Watershed]

What journeys would you be making a northbound to southbound connection on at High Wycombe? I’m sure there are some tiny edge cases, but the northbound Wycombe terminator to the northbound Oxford/Birmingham express is such a useful connection I figure you need that facility.

One example would be Beaconsfield to London - if you've just missed a direct train, in quite a few hours the fastest connection then involves going via High Wycombe.

For example, this afternoon there's a non-overtaken itinerary departing Beaconsfield at 16:07, changing at High Wycombe with a 2 minute connection. That's between a northbound Oxford and a southbound Birmingham service, so there isn't any 'slack' there.

 

[Ianno87]

High Wycombe is probably the most unusual example of a short MCT. It's just 1 minute.

That's clearly intended to allow an official connection from a High Wycombe terminator to an Oxford/Aylesbury/Birmingham service despite the 2 minute public differential ("fiddle" time) that's applied to the arrival time of the terminator.

However, due to the skipstopping nature of the Chiltern timetable, there are journeys where you will be advised to make a 1 minute connection from a northbound service to a southbound one and vice versa. For anyone that's not familiar with the layout, the station is in a cutting and the two platforms are offset from each other:

View attachment 98373

The stopping points are right at the extreme end of the platforms, and doors close up to 30 seconds before departure. So you have essentially no chance of making a one minute connection, even if you know what you're doing and the trains are on time, if you are unlucky enough to be changing from one short train to another.

You would have to manage a 200m sprint up and down a footbridge and along two platforms in less than 30 seconds.

Examples like that make me wonder why interchange times aren't/can't be specified based on booked platforms.

 

[Watershed]

Examples like that make me wonder why interchange times aren't/can't be specified based on booked platforms.

That would make an awful lot of sense, but exactly the same as changing the meaning of the 'reservations' status of a train schedule, it would require cross industry cooperation and funding to change booking engines. So unless there's a way that it can be handled in a 'failsafe' way I don't think it will happen.

Hopefully PPM will soon be extinct across the industry, then the public differential at the destination can be eliminated, and a 1 minute connection time will no lnoger be required to show a valid connection from one train to the one behind it!

 

[Cherry_Picker]

One example would be Beaconsfield to London - if you've just missed a direct train, in quite a few hours the fastest connection then involves going via High Wycombe.

For example, this afternoon there's a non-overtaken itinerary departing Beaconsfield at 16:07, changing at High Wycombe with a 2 minute connection. That's between a northbound Oxford and a southbound Birmingham service, so there isn't any 'slack' there.

That’s such an edge case though. If you’re looking at going to London via High Wycombe on the 16:07 northbound departure then it assumes you’ve just missed the 16:06 non stop direct service but are too busy to wait on the 16:28 stopper that comes from High Wycombe anyway? It’s highlighting an anomaly but it serves a practically non existent scenario.
The northbound connection is just so useful. Unless something is wrong the people looking to make it will always make it because of the layout of the station.

 

[D6975]

Examples like that make me wonder why interchange times aren't/can't be specified based on booked platforms.

Am I imagining it or did Clapham Jn used to have 2 different connection times depending on whether you were changing between the two halves of the station or not?

 

[alistairlees]

Am I imagining it or did Clapham Jn used to have 2 different connection times depending on whether you were changing between the two halves of the station or not?

There's no provision in the data for different "halves" of a station to be identified and to have different MCTs - they would have to be separate stations with separate CRS codes.

There probably was (or is?) a different MCT depending on the TOCs you were interchanging between, which is supported in the data. This is called "TOC-specific interchange".

 

[Ianno87]

There's no provision in the data for different "halves" of a station to be identified and to have different MCTs - they would have to be separate stations with separate CRS codes.

There probably was (or is?) a different MCT depending on the TOCs you were interchanging between, which is supported in the data. This is called "TOC-specific interchange".

Yes, Clapham Junction is done by TOC code, as every platform is only generally used by one TOC (apart from the occasional Overground trains into Platform 17)

 

[SargeNpton]

Yes, Clapham Junction is done by TOC code, as every platform is only generally used by one TOC (apart from the occasional Overground trains into Platform 17)

In journey planners, and in the Timetable Planning Rules, the default minimum connection time at Clapham Junction is 10 minutes. For connections between two Southern services that is reduced to 5 minutes. If any system is using values other than those then it's doing so of its own initiative.

 

[D6975]

In journey planners, and in the Timetable Planning Rules, the default minimum connection time at Clapham Junction is 10 minutes. For connections between two Southern services that is reduced to 5 minutes. If any system is using values other than those then it's doing so of its own initiative.

Thanks for that peeps. I though I'd seen reduced changing times somewhere, must have been when looking up a Southern only journey.