What is this line in Manchester used for?

[Fazaar1889]

I found the following line on Google Earth (image from railmaponline.com/UKIEMap.php) expecting to find a station next to the Etihad stadium only to find none. Consulting merrittcartographic.co.uk/british_railways.html I found that there are no passenger services on it at all. I'm curious, what is this line called, what is its history and why don't they rebuild the line through at the indicat4ed green line. surely it would help with increased demand in the area during manchester fc matches? There's already a half built viaduct there, might as well use it.

 

[kevconnor]

Its Philips Park curve was built by the LYR. It served the significant coal mines and gas works in and around what is now the City of Manchester Stadium. It's still in use as a freight-only line and helps avoid freight being routed via the centre of Manchester. It is also used for ECS moves from Newton Heath Depot to Piccadilly Station by reversing at Ashbury's.


The Viaduct is called Blind Lane Viaduct. If you search for the thread on the construction of Ordsall Chord, you will find extensive discussion there, including suggestions for reinstating Blind Lane Viaduct instead of the Odsall Chord. From memory, I think there were issues with the radial curve not being within modern standards.

 

[30907]

Here is today's timetable for Philips Park South, so it's a mix of freight and ECS.https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...24-11-02/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

IIRC it was last used by the Regional Railways NW-East Anglia services and before that briefly by the Harwich-Manchester-Scotland boat train, which I recall using around 1983.

Someone else will be able to tell when the connection round to Piccadilly closed and whether it was much used. I doubt you could justify rebuilding it simply to relieve the team of match traffic.

 

[Ianigsy]

I have a vague memory somewhere of a phantom service from Victoria to the south side of Manchester which was done away with in a pre-privatisation tidying up exercise, probably after all the East Anglian services were switched to Liverpool rather than alternating with Blackpool.

 

[jfollows]

Someone else will be able to tell when the connection round to Piccadilly closed and whether it was much used. I doubt you could justify rebuilding it simply to relieve the team of match traffic.

21/9/64 according to https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/info-on-the-ardwick-to-miles-platting-line.112194/

 

[kevconnor]

The Viaduct is called Blind Lane Viaduct. If you search for the thread on the construction of Ordsall Chord, you will find extensive discussion there, including suggestions for reinstating Blind Lane Viaduct instead of the Odsall Chord. From memory, I think there were issues with the radial curve not being within modern standards.

Now I think about it, there was also an early iteration of the design for HS2, where the station was to be above the surface, and the tunnel portal from the airport would have been in the vicinity of Blind Lane viaduct. I know the scheme has been scrapped in Manchester, but the routes are still protected.

 

[LickeyIncliner]

To answer the OP's "why don't they" questions...

...why don't they build a station to serve the Etihad Stadium? Two main reasons: [1] the present railway doesn't have the capacity (rolling stock, staff, or paths on the tracks) to run many football specials, and [2] safety concerns mean that authorities are very much against operations which could result in hundreds of spectators crowding onto a platform at once - cf Coventry's Ricoh Stadium station, which is closed before and after matches for that reason

- why not reopen the chord into Piccadilly? The previous reasons make it irrelevant, but in any case there are massive problems of capacity at and around Piccadilly, as well as the issue @kevconnor mentions of the curve probably being too tight for present standards.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

To answer the OP's "why don't they" questions...

...why don't they build a station to serve the Etihad Stadium? Two main reasons: [1] the present railway doesn't have the capacity (rolling stock, staff, or paths on the tracks) to run many football specials, and [2] safety concerns mean that authorities are very much against operations which could result in hundreds of spectators crowding onto a platform at once - cf Coventry's Ricoh Stadium station, which is closed before and after matches for that reason

- why not reopen the chord into Piccadilly? The previous reasons make it irrelevant, but in any case there are massive problems of capacity at and around Piccadilly, as well as the issue @kevconnor mentions of the curve probably being too tight for present standards.

I know about the Coventry situation but conversely Southern run regular shuttle services from Brighton to Falmer for Brighton & Hove Albion home games and it works very well.

Surely it's better both for fans and the environment to run a rail service to a football ground rather than have everyone drive or walk there?

 

[rick9525]

The only time I travelled on this line was some time during the mid 90's There was a blockade on the line from Ashburys to Piccadilly so they ran a service into Victoria instead. I cannot remember if the service ran direct from Marple or we had to change onto a shuttle service at Ashburys.

 

[Halifaxlad]

[2] safety concerns mean that authorities are very much against operations which could result in hundreds of spectators crowding onto a platform at once - cf Coventry's Ricoh Stadium station, which is closed before and after matches for that reason

Yet the Eithad has a tram stop!

 

[iknowyeah]

I know that the supporters representatives at City have brought this up with the club to ask Network Rail and been flatly told "No".

I can imagine it being a long term plan for the connectivity but the cost will be eye watering, maybe if the owners want to ingratiate themselves more with the city they could pay for a Business Case

 

[p2004]

The tram stop has infrastructure to deal with the flow of matchday crowds in and out of the stadium, and during matchdays the stop is constantly manned. Furthermore, SportCity is already well-served by buses from Piccadilly station towards Ashton, and further served by the special matchday bus services. I really struggle to see how opening a train line towards SportCity would be beneficial in the slightest, and concur that it would, if anything, cause additional capacity strains on an already very congested Manchester Piccadilly.

 

[childwallblues]

I have never managed to go down the Phillips Park line but have seen a video of it taken on board a TPE ecs 185 from Manchester Airport to Ardwick depot. I may be wrong but wasn't the line included in the original Trans Pennine electrification proposals?

 

[dosxuk]

Stations can be designed to cope with large crowds, that in itself wouldn't be a blocker for providing a station.

A much bigger problem would be where would the trains go? The infrastructure around Manchester is already over congested, adding in random extra services to serve the stadium would likely to be unworkable with the current infrastructure.

 

[Fazaar1889]

Stations can be designed to cope with large crowds, that in itself wouldn't be a blocker for providing a station.

A much bigger problem would be where would the trains go? The infrastructure around Manchester is already over congested, adding in random extra services to serve the stadium would likely to be unworkable with the current infrastructure.

In comes HS2.. would that provide enough capacity?

 

[30907]

In comes HS2.. would that provide enough capacity?

I thought it was the other club's fans who lived in London?

 

[Rail Ranger]

I think any station on the Philips Park-Ashburys line to serve the Etihad stadium would be on a gradient, which is no longer allowed.

 

[Topological]

I often thought the Blind Lane curve would have been good for bringing in trains from the North West into bays on Piccadilly's East side (0, -1, -2) to relieve pressure on Castlefield. However, such trains would serve Victoria first and hence it is unclear how many would stay on the train for the time it took to make it round to Piccadilly. It would only be to maintain connections and therefore probably has a very poor business case.

I could not see them bringing trains that terminate in Victoria from the North Easterly direction to terminate at Piccadilly, which is what the geography would otherwise suggest.

The alignment of HS2 has rendered all of this irrelevant anyway.

 

[Rail Ranger]

The radius of the Blind Lane curve was so tight that the curve connected with lines in the centre of the layout at the "Piccadilly" end, not the East lines. So any movement onto or off the curve would block the East lines.

 

[jfollows]

The radius of the Blind Lane curve was so tight that the curve connected with lines in the centre of the layout at the "Piccadilly" end, not the East lines. So any movement onto or off the curve would block the East lines.

Yes, see diagram at https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/line-pairings-on-a-4-track-railway.241547/#post-6003988

 

[Edgeley]

Don Coffey traverses this line (at night) with an ECS working in the last 10 minutes of this video:

 

[faltskog36abba]

The only time I travelled on this line was some time during the mid 90's There was a blockade on the line from Ashburys to Piccadilly so they ran a service into Victoria instead. I cannot remember if the service ran direct from Marple or we had to change onto a shuttle service at Ashburys.

I remember the Marple trains being diverted into Victoria. In the late 90s the Hadfield line closed for a 10 day blockade, Trains were operated by 150s into Victoria.

 

[175001]

There used to be a Manchester Victoria - Scarborough on a Sunday morning that ran in service on the line a few years ago

 

[norbitonflyer]

The tram stop has infrastructure to deal with the flow of matchday crowds in and out of the stadium, and during matchdays the stop is constantly manned. Furthermore, SportCity is already well-served by buses from Piccadilly station towards Ashton, and further served by the special matchday bus services. I really struggle to see how opening a train line towards SportCity would be beneficial in the slightest, and concur that it would, if anything, cause additional capacity strains on an already very congested Manchester Piccadilly.

Could be used for away supporters specials, which would reduce the number of people using Piccadilly, and keep them apart. Wadsley Bridge was used in this way to deleiver away suppiorters to Hillsborough for many years after the Woodhead line closed to passenger traffic.

 

[DarloRich]

Yet the Eithad has a tram stop!

that tram stop is not a standard Metrolink stop! it has massive extra infrastructure to cope with all the Citeh fans. You could build a railway station but it would need to have extra land and crowd control measures built in.

 

[SerialComplain]

As the city centre expands East (Coop live anyone?) I wonder if long term this is a useful piece of infrastructure? Could support regeneration in this part of the city and allow new cross city routes. Especially of capacity is freed from Piccadilly by converting some of the Eastern Suburban lines to Metro link.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The only time I travelled on this line was some time during the mid 90's There was a blockade on the line from Ashburys to Piccadilly so they ran a service into Victoria instead. I cannot remember if the service ran direct from Marple or we had to change onto a shuttle service at Ashburys.

I rode a Pacer to Hadfield that way probably on the same blockade. To say it squealed is an understatement.

 

[slipdigby]

Could be used for away supporters specials, which would reduce the number of people using Piccadilly, and keep them apart. Wadsley Bridge was used in this way to deleiver away suppiorters to Hillsborough for many years after the Woodhead line closed to passenger traffic.

Justifying building a station for normal 363 days a year a traffic is difficult enough. Justifying it on the basis of bringing in a couple of thousand (max) away fans each week is an absolute non starter. There's generally already a perfect mass transport solution for away fans, it's called the coach or minibus.

Cheers,
Slip

 

[Cletus]

There's also this Don Coffey video

27 Jan 2019
No sound! A short film showing the route from Brewery Junction near Miles Platting to Ashburys via Phillips Park. This is rarely used for passenger trains so many of you will not have seen it. The western connection with Manchester Piccadilly has long gone but the entrance over a brick viaduct is still there. This is not new footage and it has changed a bit at the Ashburys end where the signal has moved to the viaduct and an additional crossover has been added.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Going back very many years, I am sure there was a Summer Saturdays train from Nottingham to Blackpool that used this particular line. Correct me if I am wrong.