-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Which core Crossrail station do you think will get the least usage?
- Thread starter J-2739
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
GRALISTAIR
Established Member
not a bad call
Given its location next to ExCeL, and the direct link to Heathrow (and one change for Luton, Stansted and Gatwick), I can't see it myself. Could be wrong though!
Whitechapel and Woolwich only have three escalators to platform. That surely suggests they are the two with the lowest predicted entries/exits.
I'd say that was a safe bet. It will be busy when events are on, but they aren't every day
DynamicSpirit
Established Member
What do you define as the core? I'm tempted to suggest Hanwell, but I'm not sure if you regard that as 'core'.
I think Custom House will get a fair bit of usage - it's not just Excel, there's quite a lot of housing and some large blocks of flats around there - and I'd expect Custom House to see a lot of changing trains with the DLR too - people from all the other stations on the Beckton branch changing to Crossrail to get into central London.
Having said that, pretty much *every* station between Paddington and Abbey Wood/Stratford has reasons to give a very high footfall, so I could still see Custom House being the least used station in that part of the line.
I think they considers it Paddington - Abbey Wood as per the Central Operating Section. I'm not sure personally, but probably Custom House or Woolwich.
Railwaysceptic
Established Member
- Joined
- 6 Nov 2017
- Messages
- 1,599
Whitechapel is in the heart of the East End and is right opposite the London Hospital. It's already a busy station and Crossrail will undoubtedly generate some additional custom.
Yes, actually I was quite surprised Whitechapel only has 3x (so 2x in the peak direction I imagine). Given the recent works at Victoria to add more escalators for a line that is far lower capacity than the Elizabeth, which now has 3x escalators up and 3x escalators down from the main entrance as well as a whole additional entrance, I do worry that some of the Crossrail stations might be lacking in escalator capacity. Many of the central stations only have 6x, which will mean 4x up in the peaks at most. I suppose one thing that might help is that the platforms and circulation areas are so large at Elizabeth Line stations, there may be sufficient space for crowds to wait at the bottom when needed.
Over here in Hong Kong, the East Rail line extension to Hong Kong Island (Admiralty) has 10x escalators with a similar number again stacked on top.
Pictures:
I found this article a while back which I thought was interesting. Claims you can move 110 people per minute on a standard LU escalator. So that gives an exit capacity of 440 people per minute at most of the central stations with 6 escalators (2 of which could go up to each entrance), and with a train in each direction every 2.5 minutes, that suggests they expect a maximum of 550 people to get off each train at each station. That honestly seems like a capacity that could be exceeded very quickly if the line proves popular. While the official maximum capacity of a 345 is 1,500 people we all know that Londoners are willing to crush much more than that during peak hours.
swt_passenger
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 7 Apr 2010
- Messages
- 33,016
That suggests Paddington escalators could be incredibly busy while it’s a pure terminating station, doesn’t it?
Nottingham59
Established Member
That equates to around a third or a quarter of passenger on the train. I'd say that's about right for a station in the central zone, other than a major rail terminus, like say Liverpool St
EDIT: And indeed Paddington. But they only intend to run 12 tph at first, don't they?
I would have thought that the calculation is that the escalators could cope with a steady state average of 550 pax per train alighting at that service frequency, rather than a maximum, because there will be some buffer capacity within the station itself.
Yeah and this may be the saving grace, as there's so much room in the stations themselves, it might smooth things out. At Victoria, crowding on the tiny platforms is just as big of an issue as actually getting people up or down to the platform level.
Snow1964
Established Member
From 1994 to 2001 my office was near Bond Street and during the morning rush it was not uncommon for the next Jubilee line train to be arriving and discharging passengers before previous trains passengers had managed to get on the escalators (at the time was just 3 escalators, 2 up, one down) for both exiting and interchange with central line) so central concourse and cross passages would be solid with people waiting to exit. Sometimes (usually about 8:50am) would still be trying to get off the platform into cross passages whilst next train was arriving. This was at a station built in mid 1970s, just 15-20 years old, not some 100 year old design
So very intensive, high usage surges do happen, even if only last 20-30 minutes. Possibly flexible hours (rather than norm of 9am starts) means it has not been as bad in more recent times.
Where there is an odd number of escalators to gain access to stations, I would expect there to be more up escalators than down - since there will be surges of people wanting to exit a station following the arrical of a train, whereas people will generally be arriving at the station at a more steady rate. This helps to manage platform occupancy, reducing the risk of over-crowding, potentially reulting in a need to close entrances to impacted platforms / stations.
I suspect that Custom House will pick up quite a bit of the traffic currently on the DLR there, changing there rather than elsewhere, and possibly some backtracking from Canning Town, busiest DLR station, an easier interchange than elsewhere.
My guess is Woolwich Crossrail will have the least usage. No DLR, no exhibition centre, rather a depressed neighbourhood, no connection with main line which is not easier at Abbey Wood.
317 forever
Established Member
I wonder how far Woolwich CrossRail is from Woolwich Arsenal?
Davester50
Member
About a 5 minute walk
317 forever
Established Member
Ok thanks. So that's similar to Canary Wharf where CrossRail is about 5 minutes walk from the Jubilee Line.
swt_passenger
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 7 Apr 2010
- Messages
- 33,016
AFAICS it’s very close to the Royal Arsenal development site. Much closer than the stations actually named after the arsenal, which is a bit weird…
Davester50
Member
There was a bit of construction down there the last time I was in the area which forced a detour round to the development, which is when I noticed the Crossrail station.
The Crossrail side of the main road felt a bit different from the WA side.
Measuring it in Google Maps, 225 metres, which is less than the length of a Crossrail platform.
Last edited:
Entrance road to entrance road, or platform to platform? It needs crossing the main A206 dual carriageway and several side streets.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Back to opening day, and I wonder how many riding around are going to be caught out by exceeding the maximum Zone 1 etc journey time allowed, and get hit with a maximum fare.
Just over the road. It is a oddity however with the Woolwich Elizabeth line station being in Woolwich Arsenal, and Woolwich Arsenal DLR/Rail station being outside it
They just needed a different name to differentiate it - you've already good Woolwich Arsenal and Dockyard and the stations aren't actually linked.
Wouldn't most of those be transfers from Southeastern? They will change at Abbey Wood from Tuesday
8 million DLR boardings/alighting, 4 million national rail entry/exit. I'm sure you're right though, many will switch to Abbey Wood, but I was just pointing out there will be some good demand at Woolwich potentially.
- Status