White Rose station: Objections, alternatives, missed opportunities?

[Xenophon PCDGS]

In earlier discussions of this proposed station (going back some years!) I'd described the White Rose Centre in not particularly positive terms, but over the last few years the centre has been substantially improved. With retail not what it was there's a greater focus on restaurants and entertainment. Admittedly it's a very different sector but perhaps greater involvement of the team behind these changes would bear better results, they've proved they can manage a project successfully at least.

Would the clientele visiting for restaurants and entertainment be numerically smaller/the same/greater than when retail was the original raison d'etre for this new railway station?

 

[skyhigh]

Would the clientele visiting for restaurants and entertainment be numerically smaller/the same/greater than when retail was the original raison d'etre for this new railway station?

Retail was not the single original 'raison d'etre' for the new station.

 

[Crossover]

Would the clientele visiting for restaurants and entertainment be numerically smaller/the same/greater than when retail was the original raison d'etre for this new railway station?

Retail was not the single original 'raison d'etre' for the new station.

Moreover, I don’t believe the station is that close to the shopping centre anyway? Certainly not accessible in the way the likes of Meadowhall is, for example

 

[YorksLad12]

Moreover, I don’t believe the station is that close to the shopping centre anyway? Certainly not accessible in the way the likes of Meadowhall is, for example

It's a 5-minute walk from platform 4 at Meadowhall to the nearest entrance (about 3 minutes from P1). From the location of White Rose Station to the nearest door at the centre, I reckon (or Google Maps does, anyway) it's 9 minutes. Along a footpath that mostly doesn't exist.

 

[Roast Veg]

From the location of White Rose Station to the nearest door at the centre, I reckon (or Google Maps does, anyway) it's 9 minutes. Along a footpath that mostly doesn't exist.

The best walking route should be alongside the tracks as far as the zebra crossing into the car park, then past the children's play area. That path was completely overgrown when I tried it some months ago.

Any suggestion that this station is for the white rose shopping centre (as opposed to the white rose office park) is nonsense. The tram stop will serve the shopping centre, with the poor connection to the railway station that entails.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Moreover, I don’t believe the station is that close to the shopping centre anyway? Certainly not accessible in the way the likes of Meadowhall is, for example

Apologies, I keep forgetting that the station is primarily sited to serve the business park... mostly because like probably 95% of the population I've never had cause to visit a random trading estate on the edge of Leeds but have visited the shopping centre on many occasions.
I still think the station should have been better integrated into the mall, either by being built closer or by construction of a covered pedestrian walkway. Even better if the bus station was also relocated* and served by this pedestrian walking route, a bit like the sky bridges at Meadowhall Interchange.

*= The White Rose Centre bus station is a bit marooned now that the former Debenhams unit (now Marks & Spencer) no longer has an exit onto the bus station. Being tucked away at the end of the mall it's also a bit of a hotspot for low-grade antisocial behaviour.

 

[bluenoxid]

Ideally, the station would be closer to the White Rose Centre. Potentially, they should pick up the phone with whoever supplied Leeds Bradford Airport with those extended bus shelters.

Bus journey times and reliability are pretty poor in Leeds. I wouldn’t rule out people using the train to get to the White Rose with cost and the originating departure point/previous connecting vehicle being a driver on choices.

 

[Roast Veg]

Bus journey times and reliability are pretty poor in Leeds. I wouldn’t rule out people using the train to get to the White Rose with cost and the originating departure point/previous connecting vehicle being a driver on choices.

Without a better walking route, I doubt it. Most arrivals by bus will be by under 18s and over 65s, both of whom will probably have started their journey on a bus.

 

[YorksLad12]

The best walking route should be alongside the tracks as far as the zebra crossing into the car park, then past the children's play area. That path was completely overgrown when I tried it some months ago.

That’s the route I was thinking of.

*= The White Rose Centre bus station is a bit marooned now that the former Debenhams unit (now Marks & Spencer) no longer has an exit onto the bus station. Being tucked away at the end of the mall it's also a bit of a hotspot for low-grade antisocial behaviour.

A bus driver pulled up, let passengers board, then got off to urinate in the corner. In the middle of the day. Next to the seating. Problem for a different thread (or even forum).

Ideally, the station would be closer to the White Rose Centre. Potentially, they should pick up the phone with whoever supplied Leeds Bradford Airport with those extended bus shelters.

The whole thing is a mess. In the 11 years since the CA was formed, most of the old PTE people have left or retired.

Build a £30m rail station that is neither near housing in Cottingley nor next door to the shopping centre, then decide to build a tram to the centre’s front door. Genius.

I’ve yet to see how people who used to use Cottingley will get to the new station, given that there’s a busy A road to cross, plus a hillside to walk down and up.

I hate to sound like Captain Grumpy, but it would not have been a priority in my day.

 

[Crossover]

Apologies, I keep forgetting that the station is primarily sited to serve the business park... mostly because like probably 95% of the population I've never had cause to visit a random trading estate on the edge of Leeds but have visited the shopping centre on many occasions.
I still think the station should have been better integrated into the mall, either by being built closer or by construction of a covered pedestrian walkway. Even better if the bus station was also relocated* and served by this pedestrian walking route, a bit like the sky bridges at Meadowhall Interchange.

*= The White Rose Centre bus station is a bit marooned now that the former Debenhams unit (now Marks & Spencer) no longer has an exit onto the bus station. Being tucked away at the end of the mall it's also a bit of a hotspot for low-grade antisocial behaviour.

Ah, don’t get me started on the bus station! I don't know the whys and wherefores of why M&S don’t have an entrance there but I feel like it should have been contractually obliged to do so in taking over the unit.

Re the railway station, it ideally would be something vaguely Meadowhall like to better serve the shopping centre

 

[quantinghome]

Re the railway station, it ideally would be something vaguely Meadowhall like to better serve the shopping centre

The curve made that very difficult, and less convenient for access from Churwell. Ultimately there is no ideal place to put a station in the area, and the selected location is the best (or least worst) position given the various constraints and sources of passenger demand.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Ah, don’t get me started on the bus station! I don't know the whys and wherefores of why M&S don’t have an entrance there but I feel like it should have been contractually obliged to do so in taking over the unit.

Re the railway station, it ideally would be something vaguely Meadowhall like to better serve the shopping centre

I suspect that the bus station access was closed for security reasons. Presumably there was nothing in the contract preventing this, or it was renegotiated when M&S took the unit on.
From M&S's perspective, having that entrance in place means additional security staff and equipment, and impacts store layout. It would mean increased footfall (as bus users would walk through to access the mall) but any additional revenue generated won't necessarily cover the additional costs including greater losses through theft. The M&S unit has an additional exit to the car park upstairs, and the staff all seem hyper-vigilant* to it being used by would-be shoplifters. The bus station exit would be an absolute nightmare for staff.

Of course, closing the entrance just increases the other problems with the bus station, but that isn't the retailer's responsibility.
Something akin to Meadowhall Interchange would be ideal, but I'm not sure how we could get anywhere near there from where we are now.

*= The other week I visited the mall and parked close to this entrance, using it to access the mall via M&S as I needed to visit Timpsons at that end of the shopping centre. However I neglected to pick up the keys I was having duplicated from my glove compartment, which meant I was seen by the staff entering, then leaving, then re-entering in the space of just a few minutes. The swiftness with which the staff engaged with me suggests that they're used to organised gangs targeting that exit as a "weak spot".

 

[xotGD]

Name the station "White Rose Business Park" and then people will stop thinking it is there primarily to serve the shopping centre.

Just like East Midlands Parkway and the airport.