I watched this video a few weeks ago and I remember the woman stating that she couldn't use some stations because the lift was out of order. It made me just wonder with multiple lifts on each floor, a lift being out of order wouldn't stop someone with a wheelchair from using the station.
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Why aren't two plus lifts, for each floor, considered when making a stations wheelchair accessible
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Cost. It's that simple.
Buzby
Member
Cost? Even TOCs would love 100% redundancy, but the cost would be double (I doubt there would be economies of scale) but of the faulty lifts I’ve seen - if caused by vandalism, you can be sure the second would be similarly targeted, so back to square on.
Yeah maybe just wheelchair accessible passageways like ramps.
Two lifts expensive, but it's expensive to build a new line or station already, escalators are probably expensive to run. Especially if there seems to be a lot like at some JLE stations.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
More underpasses would be good, but you have to dig the line up to build them. Bridges with ramps are ugly.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
There's also the question of space. A single lift can fit opposite the steps of a footbridge but where would a second one go? It could result in a wider platform, which gets seriously expensive.
Economies of scale, such as sharing power supplies, would not save much cost and would also make it more likely that the same fault takes out both lifts.
Economies of scale, such as sharing power supplies, would not save much cost and would also make it more likely that the same fault takes out both lifts.
OhNoAPacer
Member
And that helps a non wheelchair user with reduced mobility how exactly?
By not being stairs.
Clearly ramps are acceptable because some stations have them, and they don't go out of order like lifts can.
OhNoAPacer
Member
I know people for whom a ramp is as bad as stairs.
I am not advocating two lifts BTW but arguing against ramps instead of lifts.
I don't have a dog in the fight, as it were. Like it or not, ramps are permitted, and don't break down like lifts do. So I'm surprised they aren't used more, especially at relatively quiet stations.
Dr Hoo
Established Member
Many users of ramps are fully fit/able but they are still handy for buggies, wheeled luggage, bicycles and so on. They also have rather greater capacity than slow and small lifts.
I’m not an expert but even if multiple lifts develop the same faults I doubt it would be at the same time. At stations where it seems that a lift breaks down often, Harrow and Wealdstone for example, it’s like only lifts for some platforms break down, not all of them at the same time.
From the video also I think she complained that some dlr lifts were small. Just like newer tfl buses have larger wheel chair areas I would assume newer lifts would be built to better accommodate wheelchairs and not be too small or uncomfortable. If not it should be a requirement.
When I've seen news of lifts built at stations, there is often either a proud announcement of how easy this is for wheelchair users, or an admission that the site couldn't fit the size of lift they aim for. Compare Tooting and Leatherhead in these Ianvisits links. https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/tooting-station-gets-step-free-access-with-two-new-lifts-79250/ https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/step-free-access-coming-to-leatherhead-station-69550/
I am one of those. For anyone with impaired heart and/or lung function it is the effort needed to gain height that matters.
I have already used the new lifts at Leatherhead, and I'm very glad that I no longer have to climb the stairs to get out of the subway.
There would be some economies of scale, for example in design and power supply. But, in most cases the cost of installing more than one lift is going to be prohibitive. I live in an apartment block and I'm reliant on a single lift: what annoys me is not the occasional breakdown, but the breakdowns that are not fixed the same day. For the railway, with lots of lifts of the same design, this should not be a problem as they should have suppliers with replacement components in stock.
But there should have been more than one lift at particularly busy stations, or if lifts are going a long way underground. For example, there is not enough lift capacity to/from the Elizabeth line at Farringdon, or at the St Pancras Thameslink platforms.
ABB125
Established Member
Apparently there's a station somewhere that's currently having 3 lifts installed. I'm told the cost is approaching £10 million.
I dread to think how much it would be if 6 lifts were required instead!
I dread to think how much it would be if 6 lifts were required instead!
MatthewHutton
Member
Well sounds like there is some UK cost bloat going on there too.
Berlin added lifts to its U Bahn for €2m/station as per https://pedestrianobservations.com/2019/03/12/construction-costs-metro-accessibility/