Why do London Overground reduces its services by half when there is engineering work?

[miklcct]

Last Sunday the line to Richmond was closed. The only trains remaining on the North London Line are the 4tph (trains per hour) Clapham Junction - Stratford trains, compared to the usual 8tph combined.

I travelled from Brondesbury to Hackney and the train ended up crush loaded at Highbury & Islington, possibly to the extent leaving people on the platform.

Also, when West Hampstead is closed, why are there only 2tph between Willesden Junction and Stratford (via South Hampstead) instead of 4 tph, with another 2tph terminating at Camden Road? Isn't it possible to fit another 4tph among the usual 4tph Euston - Watford service on the DC line? There is basically one to one correspondence between the DC line stations and the North London Line stations (Kensal Rise = Kensal Green, Brondesbury Park = Queen's Park, Brondesbury = Kilburn High Road, West Hampstead = South Hampstead) but 2tph instead of the usual 8tph is a massive service downgrade.

 

[Kite159]

Good point regarding the North London line, surely if the Richmond or Clapham arm is closed for engineering works, can they run services into platform 2 at Willesden Junction to give the main section from Willesden to Stratford 8tph?

 

[Basil Jet]

Last Sunday the line to Richmond was closed. The only trains remaining on the North London Line are the 4tph (trains per hour) Clapham Junction - Stratford trains, compared to the usual 8tph combined.

I travelled from Brondesbury to Hackney and the train ended up crush loaded at Highbury & Islington, possibly to the extent leaving people on the platform.

Also, when West Hampstead is closed, why are there only 2tph between Willesden Junction and Stratford (via South Hampstead) instead of 4 tph, with another 2tph terminating at Camden Road? Isn't it possible to fit another 4tph among the usual 4tph Euston - Watford service on the DC line? There is basically one to one correspondence between the DC line stations and the North London Line stations (Kensal Rise = Kensal Green, Brondesbury Park = Queen's Park, Brondesbury = Kilburn High Road, West Hampstead = South Hampstead) but 2tph instead of the usual 8tph is a massive service downgrade.

I can't answer any of your questions, but you seem to be forgetting that the line through Kensal Green is also used by a fair number of Bakerloo Line trains.

I also noticed that when the Goblin was closed west of Woodgrange Park, the remainder (Woodgrange Park to Barking Riverside) was downgraded to a half-hourly single train service.

 

[NSE]

Pretty sure platform 2 at Willesden Junction is only capable of 2/3 carriages. This is one of the reasons the old once a day through service off the Goblin to Willesden was formed of a 172 movement and not a 378 move.

 

[Kite159]

Pretty sure platform 2 at Willesden Junction is only capable of 2/3 carriages. This is one of the reasons the old once a day through service off the Goblin to Willesden was formed of a 172 movement and not a 378 move.

Can hold a 378, as LO have run a half hourly Willesden Junction - Stratford via Primrose Hill service which turns in that bay.

Also that service was a 172 due to the wiring not being installed

 

[Nippy]

Yep and we can us it to turn back DC trains from Euston if there are problems further North.

 

[Bertone]

Can hold a 378, as LO have run a half hourly Willesden Junction - Stratford via Primrose Hill service which turns in that bay.

When is the above quoted route timetabled/ used?

 

[swt_passenger]

Pretty sure platform 2 at Willesden Junction is only capable of 2/3 carriages. This is one of the reasons the old once a day through service off the Goblin to Willesden was formed of a 172 movement and not a 378 move.

I think P2 at WJ was lengthened for 5 car trains about 2014 or 2015, I remember TfL having posters up warning about it beforehand.

 

[miklcct]

When is the above quoted route timetabled/ used?

I'm literally asking why this service isn't every 15 minutes as opposed to every 30 minutes.

 

[87015]

I'm literally asking why this service isn't every 15 minutes as opposed to every 30 minutes.

Because of the Bakerloo service, as has been put. Its only just been put back in, so contact TfL if you'd rather it was just buses over NLL.

 

[Class15]

I'm literally asking why this service isn't every 15 minutes as opposed to every 30 minutes.

Believe the route via Primrose Hill can only take 2tph.

 

[Bertone]

I'm literally asking why this service isn't every 15 minutes as opposed to every 30 minutes.

………..and I was literally asking when that service via Primrose Hill is utilised.
However, reading the very detailed first post again, I note the route appears to be used only when there are issues at West Hampstead ?
Apologies!

 

[Bald Rick]

Q1 - because there is no space in the timetable to turn the service back to Stratford, either at Willesden HL or LL.

Q2 - because of the Bakerloo line, and also because the line between Camden Road and Camden Jn (via Primrose Hill) is used to regulate the large number of freights that run that day - even on Sundays.

 

[greatkingrat]

Another reason is not all Overground drivers sign that route, so even if there was the capacity, there might not be enough drivers to run 4tph that way.

 

[Class 170101]

Good point regarding the North London line, surely if the Richmond or Clapham arm is closed for engineering works, can they run services into platform 2 at Willesden Junction to give the main section from Willesden to Stratford 8tph?

Just remember that Platform 2 is some distance away from the High Level Platforms. Even if there are paths into Platform 2 remember passengers will have to make a choice as to which part of Willesden Junction station they choose to get their train from.

 

[miklcct]

Q1 - because there is no space in the timetable to turn the service back to Stratford, either at Willesden HL or LL.

I am checking some train times on 5/2 and I have found out that, there are 6 trains per hour on that day between Willesden Junction and Stratford, 4 of them the regular Richmond service and 2 of them turning back there. The line to Clapham Junction is closed on that day. All trains are scheduled on the high level.

Therefore the station has space to turn back at least 2 trains per hour.

 

[Stephen42]

I am checking some train times on 5/2 and I have found out that, there are 6 trains per hour on that day between Willesden Junction and Stratford, 4 of them the regular Richmond service and 2 of them turning back there. The line to Clapham Junction is closed on that day. All trains are scheduled on the high level.

Therefore the station has space to turn back at least 2 trains per hour.

The trains that terminate at Willesden Junction on that day are running to Acton Wells Junction to turnback. That option isn't necessarily available if there are engineering works on the Richmond branch.

 

[Triumph]

Another reason is not all Overground drivers sign that route, so even if there was the capacity, there might not be enough drivers to run 4tph that way.

Drivers should not be problem, as only Watford depot doesn't sign Primrose Hill and they only have about 3 diagrams that work on the NLL.
Freight is not a problem either at weekends as there isn't much on a Saturday and almost nothing on a Sunday.
The Bakerloo line is not a problem either, as looking at the TTN for the Bakerloo for 7/8 Jan there are 2 paths available to run a 15 minute service from the bay platform, so its all down to TFL.

 

[30907]

The Bakerloo line is not a problem either, as looking at the TTN for the Bakerloo for 7/8 Jan there are 2 paths available to run a 15 minute service from the bay platform, so its all down to TFL.

I only have access to RTT, but as far as I can see the turnround would be either 5-6min (very tight) or 10-11min; I can see a performance risk if you plan either way.

 

[greatkingrat]

Drivers should not be problem, as only Watford depot doesn't sign Primrose Hill and they only have about 3 diagrams that work on the NLL.
Freight is not a problem either at weekends as there isn't much on a Saturday and almost nothing on a Sunday.
The Bakerloo line is not a problem either, as looking at the TTN for the Bakerloo for 7/8 Jan there are 2 paths available to run a 15 minute service from the bay platform, so its all down to TFL.

It's not that simple, you need drivers who sign both Primrose Hill and the DC. So that rules out all Stratford drivers and most Willesden drivers as well.