Why don't Nework Rail take on the driving cars of Voyager 221144 as a test train?

[gazthomas]

I've read that there are two spare driving cars from a disbanded Super Voyager. I would have thought this would make a good and high speed replacement for the 950 Sprinter which must be getting on a bit now. What does everyone think?

 

[Hydro]

No need for a high speed 950 replacement, the 950 doesn't need speed for the type of work it does. The only thing getting on a bit is the track geometry system which is being replaced. There's nothing mechanically wrong with it. The 950 can go anywhere as it's a Sprinter, a Voyager will be restricted.

 

[route:oxford]

I've read that there are two spare driving cars from a disbanded Super Voyager. I would have thought this would make a good and high speed replacement for the 950 Sprinter which must be getting on a bit now. What does everyone think?

Are you sure the two "spare" driving cars are capable of moving under their own power?

Personally, I'd rather they were kept in warm store - ready for trial runs of a pantograph car.

 

[Hydro]

Are you sure the two "spare" driving cars are capable of moving under their own power?

I believe they can move but can't create their own air for braking. Apparently a compressor has been rigged up to enable it to shunt around depots but it can't do anything much else. Believe me, if NR decided to take it, it'd be modified beyond belief like everything else, solving problems like that. NR won't take it anyway.

Besides, there are much more interesting trains in the pipeline for NR than a scabby Voyager.

 

[ainsworth74]

Are you sure the two "spare" driving cars are capable of moving under their own power?

Normally no as the driving cars are missing a compressor but it's my understanding that an compressor has been retrofitted on to them (in the passenger accommodation) and that they can now crawl around on their own power if needs be but certainly it isn't a permanent 'fix'.

 

[Yew]

Pantograph testing seems a good idea

 

[Pumbaa]

Besides, there are much more interesting trains in the pipeline for NR than a scabby Voyager.

Oooh, do tell! Is Siemens building them?!

Too soon?

 

[TTI]

221144 (in it's present 2-car state) is not allowed on the mainline, due to the compressor issue mentioned above. To be moved it requires an assisitng loco/unit.

 

[DarloRich]

I've read that there are two spare driving cars from a disbanded Super Voyager. I would have thought this would make a good and high speed replacement for the 950 Sprinter which must be getting on a bit now. What does everyone think?

As Hydro says the 950 is a good piece of kit, does the job & doesnt need speed - and i hate Voyagers ( even fun sized ones )
Anyway they are FAR too modern! NR like to recycle kit that is at least 30 years old - it helps with the sustainability targets!

a 57 was used to move it to/from central rivers for the special recently

 

[MCR247]

Arent we forgetting that converting 144 to a 950 type thing would be pretty much permanent, and I doubt 5 car 143 is permanent.

 

[DarloRich]

it would be absolutly permanent! - pls i cant imagine the leaseing compnay iwll want to part with two useful spare vehicles

( The 950 is not a conversion but a purpose built scientific unit based on a 150 body shell)

 

[Hydro]

Oooh, do tell! Is Siemens building them?!

Too soon?

Oooh, burn!

NR are looking at Mk3 DVT's and giving the Virgin 57/3's a new lease of life for a new project. We don't need no steeeenkin' Voyagers.

Any conversion wouldn't necessarily be permanent. The purpose built nature of the 950 refers to the body layout rather than anything else, it's still mechanically a Sprinter, right down to door controls. It could, with large modifications, be handed over to passenger service, but it'd need a bit of a rebuild as the doors and large windows are only on one side of each coach.

 

[HugePilchard]

compressor has been retrofitted on to them (in the passenger accommodation)

That's not a problem, surely? There's plenty of room in the passenger accommodation of 220s and 221s! :roll:

 

[87019Chris]

NR are looking at Mk3 DVT's and giving the Virgin 57/3's a new lease of life for a new project. We don't need no steeeenkin' Voyagers.

Now that should be fun

 

[Helvellyn]

See, in a logical fantasy world Virgin would reform 221142-221144 as four-car units again and transfer them to CrossCountry, whilst 221119-221120 would transfer to Virgin. CrossCountry get an extra unit, and I'm sure with some diagram revisions they could swap a couple of 5-car diagrams around for 4-car ones, whilst having the benefit of being able to operate an extra 8-car diagram (in place of a 5-car) on a Friday/Saturday/Sunday.

 

[43167]

No harm having 2 spare driving cars. Quite useful if a set has minor bump involving the driving car that the set can remain in service with the spare car while the usual car repaired.

 

[Whistler40145]

Would it not be of more benefit to couple them together & use them for Driver Training & Route Refreshers?

 

[ainsworth74]

Would it not be of more benefit to couple them together & use them for Driver Training & Route Refreshers?

You will struggle to get them paths on the mainline as they can't run at line speeds, so use for route refreshers is out. But I don't see why they couldn't be used for driver training on depot, actually I having feeling that's one of the plans for them.

 

[Pumbaa]

But I don't see why they couldn't be used for driver training on depot, actually I having feeling that's one of the plans for them.

It's TM training at the Crewe Academy, which is right next door. The rest of Pendo 033 also exists at Crewe for the same uses.

 

[western Champion]

Copied from another post i made to another topic.

This is why 144 can't operate on its own and has to be dragged everywhere when not on depot.

221144 as a two car set cannot work on its own or used to strengthen another set.

It has a very noisy compressor rigged up in the luggage compartment.

If it could move on its own it would not tilt, the master tilt computer is on the 608 vehicle which is not present.

Whether or not tilt is operative on a 221 the hydraulic tilt system still has to be pressurized, controlled by the master tilt computer, if it's not then the vehicles can go off center (out of guage) causing a center detect fault. If you get one of them then it's out of service at a maximum of 40 mph which causes chaos on a 125 mph railway.

The only way i can think of to circumvent the above would be to do what cross country have done to their 221s and fit a steal bar to ensure the vehicle stays upright then the tilt system which is no longer required can be permanently isolated, the system would be de-pressurized and a center detect fault would never happen.

That's my view as a driver, if anybody can elaborate or correct me please feel free.

 

[tbtc]

See, in a logical fantasy world Virgin would reform 221142-221144 as four-car units again and transfer them to CrossCountry, whilst 221119-221120 would transfer to Virgin. CrossCountry get an extra unit, and I'm sure with some diagram revisions they could swap a couple of 5-car diagrams around for 4-car ones, whilst having the benefit of being able to operate an extra 8-car diagram (in place of a 5-car) on a Friday/Saturday/Sunday.

Gets my vote.

Even transferring the two cabs of 221144 to XC to allow them to shortern a four car Voyager into a three car Voyager (then use the cabs of 221144 with the "spared" coach, to couple together as a combined "six coach" unit) would be better - seems daft that we are crying out for Voyagers on XC whilst Virgin have two coaches (albeit end ones) sat around spare...

 

[Whistler40145]

The simplest situation I think is to make them common user for use by both Virgin West Coast & CrossCountry trains.

 

[Nym]

Except XC ruined their voyagers and VTs are OK inside...

 

[Whistler40145]

Sorry, I only meant the Power Cars!

 

[ainsworth74]

Sorry, I only meant the Power Cars!

They're all power cars as all the vehicles in a Voyager formation have an engine!

But I guess you meant the Driving Cars

 

[Hydro]

It could work, you know. Fit them with blue star and real brakes and we'll chuck them between a pair of 37's. Should raise their standing a bit in the rail community.