Why is the met line so slow between Baker St and Finchely Raod

[pethadine82]

I have noticed that the trains north or southbound seem to dawdle between Fincheley Road and Baker Street, even in the off peak where there is a 8 minute gap from the preceding train.

Why is this? I find it is quicker to take the Jubilee Line.

 

[nicobobinus]

Probably something to do with the condition of the track. The S stock ride absorbs a lot of it, but the A stock used to shake all over the place on that leg even at 30mph.

 

[paul332]

I have noticed that the trains north or southbound seem to dawdle between Fincheley Road and Baker Street, even in the off peak where there is a 8 minute gap from the preceding train.

Why is this? I find it is quicker to take the Jubilee Line.

The formation was built on the cheap 145 years ago with sharp curves following the roads and steep gradients over the Regent's canal. And the track is in serious need of renewal. Unlike the adjacent Chiltern line out of Marylebone which was built as a proper railway.

The best we can hope for is perhaps a slight improvement when they get round to renewing the track, and following the resignalling in a few years when everything should get slicker, with less contingency allowance, maybe.

 

[Daniel]

Rumours have been floating for a while now of a long blockade between Baker Street and Finchley road for a complete track renewal, which may well help things - if it happens.

 

[AndrewP]

Also the line was not built to be non-stop between Baker Street and Finchley Road. There were stations at St Johns Wood, Marlborough Road and Swiss Cottage (replaced by the Bakerloo line) so it would have been built for a slower and different use to what it has now.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

There were stations at St Johns Wood, Marlborough Road and Swiss Cottage (replaced by the Bakerloo line) so it would have been built for a slower and different use to what it has now.

All three of which, especially Marlborough Road, can still be seen today if you know where to look.

 

[philjo]

The met line calling at St Johns wood would be useful when the cricket is on at Lords as it is shorter walk than going to Baker Street.

 

[causton]

The met line calling at St Johns wood would be useful when the cricket is on at Lords as it is shorter walk than going to Baker Street.

This thread is about *increasing* the Met line speed! This would just cause trains to queue up - which they do enough going non-stop Finchley Road to Baker Street! Not as if it's that hard to change to the Jubilee, or catch a bus from Baker Street

 

[Metrailway]

Unless I'm mistaken, the Met and Jubilee are timetabled to take a similar amount of time between Finchley Road and Baker Street. It takes 6 minutes southbound, 5.5 northbound, on the Met off-peak, and it is 6.5 minutes northbound, 5.5 southbound on the Jubilee. The Jubilee was slower in the past, taking around 8 minutes IIRC before ATO.

You also have to remember that it is quicker to exit Baker Street from the Met platforms as they are closer to the surface!

 

[causton]

Unless I'm mistaken, the Met and Jubilee are timetabled to take a similar amount of time between Finchley Road and Baker Street. It takes 6 minutes southbound, 5.5 northbound, on the Met off-peak, and it is 6.5 minutes northbound, 5.5 southbound on the Jubilee. The Jubilee was slower in the past, taking around 8 minutes IIRC before ATO.

You also have to remember that it is quicker to exit Baker Street from the Met platforms as they are closer to the surface!

Will have to remember that then, as I used to use Queensbury a lot and would change at Baker Street to a Met to overtake Jubilee trains when heading northbound, thinking the extra interchange time between the two would be cancelled out by the quicker journey. Will go for the easier cross-platform interchange at Finchley Road now as that still means you overtake 3 or 4 Jubilee trains usually! :P

 

[jopsuk]

I bet there's some at LU would happily remove Finchley Road as a Met stop, allowing all trains to run fast to/from Wembley Park where the line becomes four-track. Having a station in the "bottle neck" part of the line must impact the number of trains that can get through?

Then again, the Met platforms are a less than optimal arrangement at Baker street. Ideally you'd have the bays in the middle and through lines round the outside.

 

[edwin_m]

Unless I'm mistaken, the Met and Jubilee are timetabled to take a similar amount of time between Finchley Road and Baker Street. It takes 6 minutes southbound, 5.5 northbound, on the Met off-peak, and it is 6.5 minutes northbound, 5.5 southbound on the Jubilee. The Jubilee was slower in the past, taking around 8 minutes IIRC before ATO.

Are these Jubilee figures inclusive or exclusive of the two intermediate stops? If the Jubilee can nearly match the Met time while making to stops it's not surprising the Met feels slow!

I was a fairly regular user of this route as a child/teen in the 70s and early 80s and to my young and impressionable mind the Met seemed very fast at the time, before the sickening crashes and the lights going out as it negotiated the complicated pointwork at Baker Street.

 

[Metrailway]

The Jubilee figures includes stops. As stated before the Met route into Baker Street isn't exactly conducive to fast running with is harsh gradients and curves. On the other hand, the Jubilee section was built in the 30s for high speed running (in tube terms) between St John's Wood and Baker Street.

Before the upgrades, I believe the speeds on the Jubilee was 30mph max matching the Met max speeds.

One would hope that the Met's speed between Finchley Road and Baker Street would improve after resignalling and ATO is implemented.

 

[simple simon]

The Great Central built two tunnels - but only ever used one of them... maybe the Met could borrow some of the spare tunnel???

Simon

 

[jopsuk]

Then again, the Met platforms are a less than optimal arrangement at Baker street. Ideally you'd have the bays in the middle and through lines round the outside.

In fact, something roughly like Queens Park where the Watford DC and Bakerloo merge would be good. But not practical to build and would mean the destruction of a historic station

 

[NSEFAN]

The Great Central built two tunnels - but only ever used one of them... maybe the Met could borrow some of the spare tunnel???

Simon

The ends of the tunnels are there but the tunnels themselves were never actually built, I believe.

 

[orienteer]

I recall when commuting into town on the Met some 30 years ago the trains almost taking off southbound as they crossed the canal, due to the sudden increase in gradient. Certainly made the stomach go light!

 

[Zoe]

If you wanted to go from say Bond Street to Uxbridge, is it best to change at Baker Street or Finchley Road? Even if the Met was slightly quicker I'd have thought this would be cancelled out by fact that it's a cross platform interchange at Finchley Road but I'm also thinking you could be more likely to get a seat at Baker Street.

 

[orienteer]

I usually change at Finchley Rd between Uxbridge and Bond St, but that's off-peak. If you want a seat northbound at busy times, best to catch an Uxbridge train from Baker St that starts there, as opposed to an Aldgate starter. There are four trains an hour from each terminal.

 

[simple simon]

But for WW2 the Met's station at Lords (for the cricket) would probably still exist. As would (possibly) Pullman carriages on some trains, through GWR trains from the west to Aldgate and the (District / LMS) Southend Corridor Express.

As for Finchley Road station, if the plans for a proper interchange at West Hampstead ever come to pass the in addition to new platforms for Chiltern trains there could be new platforms for Met trains, replacing Finchley Road.

As sdie effect of this would be fewer people interchanging at Marylebone and many people wanting fast trains to Met stations north of Harrow on the Hill (even people going to Uxbridge) changing at West Hampstead - to the Chiltern.

Maybe if the tracks could be rearranged Chiltern would want to run fast trains to Watford, again. To compete with LM.

Simon

 

[ModernRailways]

I've always felt the Met line was fairly fast. I managed to grab a cab ride and recorded it (shameless video plug) and that seemed to be fairly fast. Here is the video for those interested: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgFG2MG2Yxs