Why is there a "transfer" fixed link from Stratford to London Liverpool Street?

[Adam Williams]

The ‘Transfer’ mode is normally used where it is inappropriate to dictate whether the transit should be made by bus, walk, taxi etc.

Wouldn't most customers use the Central or Elizabeth Lines for this journey? Or hell, not rely on a fixed link at all and take a timetabled train?

Anyone know the reasoning it's not a TUBE fixed link?

 

[SargeNpton]

It's there for those dates when Liverpool Street is closed, otherwise journey planners would fail to show a journey. That it's "Transfer" mode instead of "Tube" is because the latter only works with tickets that have the cross-London marker (Maltese cross).

There are similar links elsewhere that sit in the background until engineering work happens.

 

[miklcct]

It's there for those dates when Liverpool Street is closed, otherwise journey planners would fail to show a journey. That it's "Transfer" mode instead of "Tube" is because the latter only works with tickets that have the cross-London marker (Maltese cross).

There are similar links elsewhere that sit in the background until engineering work happens.

When Liverpool Street is closed, is ticket acceptence always available on the tube between Liverpool Street / Stratford / Newbury Park because otherwise the ticket doesn't have tube validity, and the message on Trainsplit tells me the ticket won't cover the portion between Newbury Park and Liverpool Street.

 

[OscarH]

It's there for those dates when Liverpool Street is closed, otherwise journey planners would fail to show a journey. That it's "Transfer" mode instead of "Tube" is because the latter only works with tickets that have the cross-London marker (Maltese cross).

There are similar links elsewhere that sit in the background until engineering work happens.

Should it not have start and end dates in that case?

 

[Adam Williams]

Should it not have start and end dates in that case?

I'm inclined to think it should, in the ALF file at least. The current status quo leads to customers being given odd itineraries using the fixed link when there aren't engineering works (which of course is the overwhelming majority of the time!), since there's nothing in the data to imply the link shouldn't be used and the JP has no way of knowing if there's a cost associated with the transfer.

For the benefit of others, the spec says "‘Transfer" is also used on those occasions when tickets without the Cross-London marker are accepted on the London Underground e.g. for engineering work"

 

[SargeNpton]

Should it not have start and end dates in that case?

I guess that it's used so frequently that whoever maintains that data would be forever having to edit the record.

 

[Adam Williams]

I guess that it's used so frequently that whoever maintains that data would be forever having to edit the record.

How many times is LST closed in a year nowadays, now there's not an upgrade programme going on?

I am not sure I am really convinced by that. I live in hope that "whoever maintains the data" prioritises data quality for TIS suppliers over their own workload

I am impressed by the response times here on the forum vs the PMS helpdesk, though, I must admit.

 

[kieron]

I'm inclined to think it should, in the ALF file at least. The current status quo leads to customers being given odd itineraries using the fixed link when there aren't engineering works (which of course is the overwhelming majority of the time!), since there's nothing in the data to imply the link shouldn't be used and the JP has no way of knowing if there's a cost associated with the transfer.

For the benefit of others, the spec says "‘Transfer" is also used on those occasions when tickets without the Cross-London marker are accepted on the London Underground e.g. for engineering work"

Stratford–London Liverpool Street is an inter-available routes, so you should always be allowed to use a rail ticket on London Underground. Stratford–Newbury Park isn't, but you can't buy a point-to-point rail ticket to Newbury Park, and it isn't normally on the way to anywhere which does have rail tickets.

There are a few other similar inter-available routes (in that they have a TRANSFER route which isn't valid overnight). For example, Amersham–Harrow-on-the-Hill and Amersham–London Marylebone have them, although Harrow-on-the-Hil–London Marylebone (or –Baker Street, for that matter) doesn't have a fixed link at all.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Stratford–London Liverpool Street is an inter-available routes, so you should always be allowed to use a rail ticket on London Underground. Stratford–Newbury Park isn't, but you can't buy a point-to-point rail ticket to Newbury Park, and it isn't normally on the way to anywhere which does have rail tickets.

There are a few other similar inter-available routes (in that they have a TRANSFER route which isn't valid overnight). For example, Amersham–Harrow-on-the-Hill and Amersham–London Marylebone have them, although Harrow-on-the-Hil–London Marylebone (or –Baker Street, for that matter) doesn't have a fixed link at all.

Fixed links for Met Line stations are generally only enabled when Chiltern have no service between Marylebone and Amersham, though a look at BRTimes shows links for Hillingdon being active as standard.

 

[miklcct]

Fixed links for Met Line stations are generally only enabled when Chiltern have no service between Marylebone and Amersham, though a look at BRTimes shows links for Hillingdon being active as standard.

The last time when there were no Chiltern services due to planned works, train schedules between Amersham and Baker Street were loaded into the National Rail timetable such that journey planners could produce results between Aylesbury and Baker Street.

 

[CyrusWuff]

The last time when there were no Chiltern services due to planned works, train schedules between Amersham and Baker Street were loaded into the National Rail timetable such that journey planners could produce results between Aylesbury and Baker Street.

Different journey planners have different interpretations of the data, however. Doing a search for something like Rickmansworth to Maidenhead (can't remember exactly) on one such weekend gave a routing of Rickmansworth - Amersham (using the Met Line schedules that had been loaded) followed by the fixed link to Paddington and then the Elizabeth Line out to Maindenhead. Worldline WebTIS was the only journey planner that offered Rickmansworth - Baker Street (using the Met Line schedule) followed by the fixed link to Paddington.

 

[Joe Paxton]

How many times is LST closed in a year nowadays, now there's not an upgrade programme going on?

I am not sure I am really convinced by that. I live in hope that "whoever maintains the data" prioritises data quality for TIS suppliers over their own workload

I am impressed by the response times here on the forum vs the PMS helpdesk, though, I must admit.

Do you mean the response times from other helpful posters to queries made on this forum...

...or the response times relating to data being corrected in industry databases / files when an error or inaccuracy is highlighted on this forum?

 

[ThisIsSurbiton]

Stratford–London Liverpool Street is an inter-available routes, so you should always be allowed to use a rail ticket on London Underground.

For this reason I really think that it should have "tube" mode. As transfer usually means you're not covered by the fare, a TIS could be tempted to end your fare before that link, and leave you unpaid for the last bit

 

[OscarH]

For this reason I really think that it should have "tube" mode. As transfer usually means you're not covered by the fare, a TIS could be tempted to end your fare before that link, and leave you unpaid for the last bit

I agree transfer is completely inappropriate for it, though I think the issue with tube is it potentially won't validate if it's not a maltese cross ticket? Either way, if that is a problem they should add a new mode, or if it isn't then it should be tube, and it should be only added and dated for those days (which I appreciate is extra work, but I wouldn't expect it more than a few times a year, and on those days they're already tearing up the whole timetable)

 

[Watershed]

on those days they're already tearing up the whole timetable

The people who tear up the timetable are different to those who work on the data that journey planners use. There often doesn't seem to be much in the way of communication between the two...