Why tram replacement buses never run on the tracks?

[signed]

Any tram network I can think have provisions for a bus replacement service in case of disruptions

Such provisions mostly always entail putting the stops a few hundreds meters away, making it sometimes widely inconvenient to use during long disruptions

Running the buses on as much as possible of the tracks would alliviate the massive traffic mess that is caused by a sudden influx of buses.

What prevents the replacement buses from running on the tracks? Is this only a case of signalling provisions?

 

[Bletchleyite]

You do see this in Germany and the likes. Main issue is probably compatibility with stop platform heights, and obviously cases where the tramway isn't on a conventional road.

 

[Busaholic]

You do see this in Germany and the likes. Main issue is probably compatibility with stop platform heights, and obviously cases where the tramway isn't on a conventional road.

Amsterdam too. Emergency services in those countries regularly traverse tramlines in the course of a working day, and the tram drivers take this in their stride. Long stretches of straight track lend themselves well to the practice, as is car driver, cyclist and pedestrian familiarity with the practice.

 

[WibbleWobble]

Platform heights is a big issue - look at Manchester's Metrolink, you wouldn't be able to board or alight a bus with those.

Another one is the alignment; many tramways are on ballast trackbeds, or even have grassy trackbeds - look at Ile de France Tramway ligne 3a/3b.

And finally, the roadway might offer an alternative with no need for running on the tramway - again ligne 3a/3b, much of Blackpool's tramway, or on-street sections of the Metrolink... these all run down the middle of / alongside an ordinary road.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

In Manchester, cars and vans occasionally seem to give it a go at driving along the segregated tram tracks!

 

[greenline712]

Erm ... just a small point ... if the trams are suspended, won't that be because the tracks are being dug up and renewed?

All the other reasons apply as well .... or am I missing something??

 

[signed]

if the trams are suspended, won't that be because the tracks are being dug up and renewed?

Not necessarily (could be OHLE...), and even then every part isn't dug up at the same time I believe

many tramways are on ballast trackbeds, or even have grassy trackbeds

Let's assume mostly driveable alignment

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My point is made because of the 6 weeks suspension of the trams in Brest, France (standard low-floor Citadis 302s) where all the city center trunk is driveable

The center of the city is becoming pure madness as there are there is a TRB every 5-7 minutes each way. And I was interested in knowing what would go into making a bus use a tram track.

 

[edwin_m]

Not necessarily (could be OHLE...), and even then every part isn't dug up at the same time I believe


Let's assume mostly driveable alignment

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My point is made because of the 6 weeks suspension of the trams in Brest, France (standard low-floor Citadis 302s) where all the city center trunk is driveable

The center of the city is becoming pure madness as there are there is a TRB every 5-7 minutes each way. And I was interested in knowing what would go into making a bus use a tram track.

Many reasons to suspend the tram would also block the track. If it's an OLE or track defect there may be people working on it, and a failed tram clearly represents a blockage although buses might be able to drive by on the other track.

However, in the UK if a tramway is laid in embedded rail that other vehicles can drive over, it's almost always on or next to a road where the other vehicles can drive more easily. Sections that don't follow roads are almost all on ballasted or slab track. We basically don't have the tram-only streets you see in some French cities or Amsterdam.

There's also the problem that buses don't have the equipment to trigger traffic priority at tram signals, and they aren't legally allowed to obey them.

 

[renegademaster]

Let's assume mostly driveable alignment

British tramways don't have much of that

 

[ALEMASTER]

Suppose it depends if we are talking street tramway or ballasted railway and where the engineering works are talking place!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

There's also the problem that buses don't have the equipment to trigger traffic priority at tram signals, and they aren't legally allowed to obey them.

Only a minor nitpick, but the traffic signals for the Manchester Road guideway in Bradford have a "tram style" light (a sort of "/ \" symbol) in place of the green.

 

[WibbleWobble]

Another issue is in Britain, buses may not be able to use tram-only roads because it would be plain illegal to do so. This is the case in Manchester, where roads like part of Mosley Street are signposted as trams only, and would need a Traffic Regulation Order in order to re-permit buses to use them - and that takes time and cost, so you couldn't do it at the drop of a hat.

 

[markymark2000]

You do see this in Germany and the likes. Main issue is probably compatibility with stop platform heights

For the low floor platforms (so basically all except Manchester), the platform height seems to be not much different to a bus stop raised kerb which are quite common. It was previously done in Nottingham in 2015. There's some photos on Flickr to prove. I've only linked one below and this isn't my photo, full credit goes to Daniel Mullins on Flickr.

Nottingham city Transport - 708

Working on the Tram Replacement service due to extension works at Wilkinson Street depot. no. YN05 WFD

flic.kr

To answer the OP, as Nottingham shows, it can be done but I'd say there is a lot to consider. Of course ignoring any areas where it wouldn't be driveable and also consider where staff are working on the line.

Platforms may be an issue. This only works where tram doors open on the left otherwise it would mean buses driving on the wrong side of the road/wrong line running. The only exception being a blockade such as seen above where it is off road and the tram is on one side and bus on the other. Very few other places where this would work. Infact, The Forest may be the only one.

Bus access/egress to the tramway may be an issue. Buses may not be able to get on/off the tram tracks at a suitable location or not be able to leave the tracks without temporary traffic control. Here I am looking at Nottingham Clifton Line at Meadows Lane & Queens Walk area. Clear tramway here which buses could run on. Buses can't go over to Wilford Village as there is no way to leave the tram tracks before they become normal tracks. There is no way to get buses on/off the tramway though at Meadows Lane as the junction isn't wide enough and there is also barriers in the middle of the tramway to discourage cars going down, this would affect the bus turning on/off here. Same issue for joining at Robin Hood Lane to serve Queens Walk tram stop. It may also be that a bus couldn't safely get to the stop without activating the tram signals and so in some cases this would need work (looking at Holy Trinity stop on Nottingham Clifton line).

There's not many instances I don't think where it would work having buses running on tram tracks, mostly because of the access issue, or where that bit works, it would end up being island platforms which buses couldn't really use.


What I will say though is, where trams are proper on street running and the tram platforms are on the left (looking at Sheffield through Hillsborough for example), I do wonder why tram stops aren't used for bus replacement.

 

[londonbridge]

The one and only time I’ve used a tram replacement bus was from Lloyd park to East Croydon station, bus ran direct without calling at any of the intermediate stops.

 

[JD2168]

For the low floor platforms (so basically all except Manchester), the platform height seems to be not much different to a bus stop raised kerb which are quite common. It was previously done in Nottingham in 2015. There's some photos on Flickr to prove. I've only linked one below and this isn't my photo, full credit goes to Daniel Mullins on Flickr.

Nottingham city Transport - 708

Working on the Tram Replacement service due to extension works at Wilkinson Street depot. no. YN05 WFD

flic.kr

To answer the OP, as Nottingham shows, it can be done but I'd say there is a lot to consider. Of course ignoring any areas where it wouldn't be driveable and also consider where staff are working on the line.

Platforms may be an issue. This only works where tram doors open on the left otherwise it would mean buses driving on the wrong side of the road/wrong line running. The only exception being a blockade such as seen above where it is off road and the tram is on one side and bus on the other. Very few other places where this would work. Infact, The Forest may be the only one.

Bus access/egress to the tramway may be an issue. Buses may not be able to get on/off the tram tracks at a suitable location or not be able to leave the tracks without temporary traffic control. Here I am looking at Nottingham Clifton Line at Meadows Lane & Queens Walk area. Clear tramway here which buses could run on. Buses can't go over to Wilford Village as there is no way to leave the tram tracks before they become normal tracks. There is no way to get buses on/off the tramway though at Meadows Lane as the junction isn't wide enough and there is also barriers in the middle of the tramway to discourage cars going down, this would affect the bus turning on/off here. Same issue for joining at Robin Hood Lane to serve Queens Walk tram stop. It may also be that a bus couldn't safely get to the stop without activating the tram signals and so in some cases this would need work (looking at Holy Trinity stop on Nottingham Clifton line).

There's not many instances I don't think where it would work having buses running on tram tracks, mostly because of the access issue, or where that bit works, it would end up being island platforms which buses couldn't really use.


What I will say though is, where trams are proper on street running and the tram platforms are on the left (looking at Sheffield through Hillsborough for example), I do wonder why tram stops aren't used for bus replacement.

The Tram stops in Sheffield are at a higher height than the bus stops so buses would have to be in Ferry Lift mode to serve these.

The stops in Sheffield replacement buses stop very near by as some particularly on the current Gleadless to Halfway replacement has a gravel bed not all concrete, so the run on the nearest road to the Tram Tracks.

 

[markymark2000]

The Tram stops in Sheffield are at a higher height than the bus stops so buses would have to be in Ferry Lift mode to serve these.

Is that just a Sheffield issue or is that all low floor tram stops? Depending how big the block is, finding enough vehicles with ferry lift should doable.

The stops in Sheffield replacement buses stop very near by as some particularly on the current Gleadless to Halfway replacement has a gravel bed not all concrete, so the run on the nearest road to the Tram Tracks.

If you can find enough buses with ferry lift, the only places that would be viable for buses to stop at the tram platform would be: Birley Moor Road (Towards Sheffield would need to trigger the traffic lights). Gleadless Townend - Park Grange. Castle Square & Cathedral (Westbound only). City Hall & West Street. Shalesmoor Road (Westbound). Infirmary Road - Leppings Lane. This is where the network is running on normal streets, or where a bus could viably get on/off the driveable parts of the tramway.

 

[renegademaster]

Depending how big the block is, finding enough vehicles with ferry lift should doable.

It would still be a lot of hassle over just moving the bus stop 100yards down the road. I think the croydon tram stops are quite higher than the typical bus stop too. Definitely higher than the Nottingham stop posted earlier