Will cross-London connection times reduce when Crossrail opens?

arb

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At the moment it is generally accepted that the official connection times for crossing London are quite generous, for example Liverpool Street to Paddington is, I think, 55 minutes (made up of a 15 minute connection time in each station plus 25 minutes for the tube journey).

Given that Crossrail appears in RealTimeTrains, unlike the tube, I assume it is going to be part of the regular National Rail timetable and journey planning systems. Does that mean that journey planners will allocate you to a specific Crossrail service, which according to RealTimeTrains will take 10.5 minutes for a journey from Liverpool Street to Paddington?

And hence will the time for a Liverpool Street to Paddington connection be reduced from 55 minutes to a minimum of 40.5 minutes (2 * 15 minutes at each end, plus 10.5 minutes journey time), assuming your arrival time in the first terminal is exactly 15 minutes before the departure of a Crossrail service? And perhaps a couple of minutes longer on average because the arrivals/departures won't always match up perfectly, but Crossrail will be frequent enough that you'll only ever be waiting a few minutes at most?
 
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Ianno87

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At the moment it is generally accepted that the official connection times for crossing London are quite generous, for example Liverpool Street to Paddington is, I think, 55 minutes (made up of a 15 minute connection time in each station plus 25 minutes for the tube journey).

Given that Crossrail appears in RealTimeTrains, unlike the tube, I assume it is going to be part of the regular National Rail timetable and journey planning systems. Does that mean that journey planners will allocate you to a specific Crossrail service, which according to RealTimeTrains will take 10.5 minutes for a journey from Liverpool Street to Paddington?

And hence will the time for a Liverpool Street to Paddington connection be reduced from 55 minutes to a minimum of 40.5 minutes (2 * 15 minutes at each end, plus 10.5 minutes journey time), assuming your arrival time in the first terminal is exactly 15 minutes before the departure of a Crossrail service? And perhaps a couple of minutes longer on average because the arrivals/departures won't always match up perfectly, but Crossrail will be frequent enough that you'll only ever be waiting a few minutes at most?

I suspect it'll either give you a tube journey complying with the 55 minutes, or an itinerary via Crossrail, with connection times at Paddington and Liverpool Street, whichever is faster.

I hope it doesn't repeat the Thameslink problem of over-egging the Interchange time... (Paddington and Liverpool Street both currently 15 minutes)
 

JonathanH

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I think it will be more interesting to see what happens where there is an interchange at Slough and Stratford which 'beats' the Paddington and Liverpool Street connection times.

There are already instances when booking engines make connections at Stratford 'beat' those at Liverpool Street.
 
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Ianno87

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I think it will be more interesting to see what happens where there is an interchange at Slough and Stratford which 'beats' the Paddington and Liverpool Street connection times.

The Crossrail journey time I suspect would be too slow from Slough for this to be routinely offered (though I could be wrong).

Stratford on the other hand I can see being commonly offered, especially with so many GEML trains calling there.
 

Bikeman78

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The Crossrail journey time I suspect would be too slow from Slough for this to be routinely offered (though I could be wrong).

Stratford on the other hand I can see being commonly offered, especially with so many GEML trains calling there.
The interchange time at Stratford is only seven minutes. Having used Liverpool Street and Stratford a lot, I'm not convinced that the former requires twice as long as the latter.

At the moment the eastbound platform is usually full of people off the Central line waiting for the Shenfield stopper and vice versa on the westbound. Crossrail will probably result in lots of people crossing those platforms in the opposite direction.
 

Ianno87

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London Terminal connection times are traditionally very long, e.g. 15 minutes at (IIRC) Paddington, Euston, St Pancras, King's Cross and Liverpool Street.

I wonder if part of the logic is to reduce the amount of doubling back into and out of the same terminal suggested by journey planners?
 

Dr Day

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I wonder if part of the logic is to reduce the amount of doubling back into and out of the same terminal suggested by journey planners?
Doubt it. The worst case of a less-than-fully-fit passenger arriving at the very rear of the longest train, being the last one off, unfamiliar with the layout, transferring comfortably to the furthest connection platform, possibly through two sets of gates, at a busy time I would imagine could quite easily take 15 minutes. Even though someone clued up and ready to get off first in the right position could do the same connection in less than five. I'm sure this has been discussed many times before but connectional times are a tricky balance to get right for all types of passenger.

Even pre-Crossrail, was surprised on a recent journey Paddington-Southend a journey planner (actually Google) routed via Lancaster Gate and Stratford, but it worked well.
 

Alfie1014

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I’m not sure it’ll be quite as game changing as anticipated, (which i don’t mean Crossrail itself), firstly due to the fact that the Crossrail platforms are (Paddington excepted) are quite deep. At the moment I can easily get from any of the main line platforms at Liv St to the WB H&C/Circle line platform in about 5 mins. Come Crossrail I would imagine that to get to WB Crossrail platform will probably take twice that, (2 escalators and some long passages to transit), after all the platforms are actually almost halfway to Moorgate, that combined with only 12 tph to start off with will make comparisons less attractive. At Paddington the time from platform to platform will probably increase but by not quite so much as the platforms are not so deep and are adjacent to the main concourse.

From the east the game changer will be through services with a much easier change at Stratford.
 

Bikeman78

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Come Crossrail I would imagine that to get to WB Crossrail platform will probably take twice that, (2 escalators and some long passages to transit), after all the platforms are actually almost halfway to Moorgate,
Actually that's a good point. From the main concourse at Liverpool Street, which way does one head to get to Crossrail?
 

Wilts Wanderer

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At Paddington are we certain the main line to Crossrail interchange is actually 15 mins? To my knowledge the Elizabeth line station is a different ‘timetable location’ to the main terminal.
 

Bikeman78

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At Paddington are we certain the main line to Crossrail interchange is actually 15 mins? To my knowledge the Elizabeth line station is a different ‘timetable location’ to the main terminal.
It would be a bit odd if it were shorter wouldn't it? Going from platform 14, or the Hammersmith and City Line, to Crossrail will take slightly longer than to platform 1.
 

Alfie1014

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Actually that's a good point. From the main concourse at Liverpool Street, which way does one head to get to Crossrail?
Turn right through the Underground main barrier line as if going towards the Central line, the passageway to Crossrail will be straight ahead.
 

swt_passenger

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It would be a bit odd if it were shorter wouldn't it? Going from platform 14, or the Hammersmith and City Line, to Crossrail will take slightly longer than to platform 1.
I’m not sure a P14 to Crossrail will be a sensible change, won’t any GW relief side services have callied at better stations to change at?
 

Horizon22

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At Paddington are we certain the main line to Crossrail interchange is actually 15 mins? To my knowledge the Elizabeth line station is a different ‘timetable location’ to the main terminal.

I don't see why it wouldn't be - its going to be no quicker than going from say the concourse end of Platform 4 to the H&C line.
It would be a bit odd if it were shorter wouldn't it? Going from platform 14, or the Hammersmith and City Line, to Crossrail will take slightly longer than to platform 1.

It will really depend which platform you arrive on! Getting to Crossrail will be easier the lower the platform you are on whilst the H&C easier the higher the platform you are on (and easier still if you're somewhere towards the middle of a 9-10 car train).
 

JonathanH

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I’m not sure a P14 to Crossrail will be a sensible change, won’t any GW relief side services have callied at better stations to change at?
Some services from platform 14 run fast to / from Slough or Maidenhead but I suspect most people would just use the through train.
 

Watershed

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At Paddington are we certain the main line to Crossrail interchange is actually 15 mins? To my knowledge the Elizabeth line station is a different ‘timetable location’ to the main terminal.
There are certainly other stations where different parts have different TIPLOCs (timetable locations) but the same CRS (three letter) code, and are treated as the same station by journey planners.

For example, St Pancras, Liverpool Lime Street and Glasgow Central/Queen St.
 

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