Will I be entitled to Delay Repay if I rerouted myself into a "longer" route in order to minimise the delay?

[miklcct]

On last Saturday I encountered a massive delay on the Gatwick Express, which, according to the real-time information, I would likely end up taking a train 30 minutes later than my original plan (planned arrival Cricklewood at 20:46, estimated arrival 21:16), if I stuck to my planned routing.

I was thinking if I should stay on the Gatwick Express train all the way to Victoria and take the tube to St Pancras instead of following my plan to change at East Croydon then Farringdon in order to get home faster. However, the generous cross-London connection time meant that the valid itinerary would get me to Cricklewood at 21:16. However, I was afraid that if I stayed on the train to Victoria and took the tube instead, I would not be able to claim that my journey plan was to use Thameslink to cross London, but "intentionally delaying myself by using the Tube" (as, according to the real-time data and official connection time, the estimated arrival would become 21:31 travelling to Victoria instead of 21:16 if I followed the original routing, however, I would likely be able to get home half an hour earlier than the official time if crossing London by tube is involved), making me ineligible for Delay Repay at all despite arriving 15 late estimated into Cricklewood, so I got off at the airport and continued my journey on Thameslink to cross London.

Is my reasoning correct that rerouting myself using a route with longer official journey time will count as "intentionally delaying myself", voiding any chance of getting Delay Repay on the original route?

 

[andrew749]

My experience of claiming Delay Repay online is that it gives you an official itinerary for the journey, based on your start time, and that is what you can claim against. If that gives you an outcome that you're satisfied with (a delay of 15 minutes or more), you'd be within your rights to proceed with that claim.
I'm assuming, as you travelled via London, that you have a credit card sized magnetic stripe ticket, and hence GTR have no record of your passage through barrier lines (they would if you'd used an e-ticket).

 

[miklcct]

My experience of claiming Delay Repay online is that it gives you an official itinerary for the journey, based on your start time, and that is what you can claim against. If that gives you an outcome that you're satisfied with (a delay of 15 minutes or more), you'd be within your rights to proceed with that claim.
I'm assuming, as you travelled via London, that you have a credit card sized magnetic stripe ticket, and hence GTR have no record of your passage through barrier lines (they would if you'd used an e-ticket).

The Delay Repay system of GTR requires me to enter my journey manually without suggesting any official itinerary.

 

[JBuchananGB]

What matters with delay repay is what actually happened. You presented yourself at your origin station to catch a certain train with an acceptable itinerary. You boarded the first suitable train heading in the right direction and made various decisions which resulted in your deviating from the intended itinerary, and arriving at your intended destination x minutes later than the if you had followed the intended itinerary. The late-running or cancellation of the train which first triggered your decision to reroute yourself defines the TOC from whom you make a claim, and the claim is based on the actual number of minutes later than the originally intended time of arrival.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Normally if I deliberately hang back or take a slower train e.g. because it's quieter I claim based on what would have happened if I'd crammed into the first available train, unless the one I did get ends up arriving earlier due to some sort of further delay. However there have been edge cases. A while back I was commuting to East Croydon, if the Southern was cancelled it was quickest to take the next fast to Victoria then cross London and go out of Euston, but I preferred the more relaxing run on the next Thameslink to St Pancras and walking over to Euston. This was about 15 minutes slower and I claimed for that and it was always paid. I must have done it 5-6 times as they turned the 1710 Southern at Selhurst with irritating regularity (and never enough notice to take the stopper before it to catch it there), so they were clearly happy with it. The long official cross London times may well have influenced this, though - it could well have been the quickest official option, with via Vic only being quicker because I know you only need about 25 minutes to cross London that way.

I think, for what it's worth, that with e-tickets where putting in a "false" claim might mean them alleging fraud as they have far more information on what I actually did, I would honestly enter what I did but then select the delay claimed as what it would have been if I'd taken the fastest reasonable option rather than e.g. hung back for a quieter train*, and let them work that out.

* In disruption my usual rule is "take the second train out" - normally it's much quieter than the first.

 

[miklcct]

What matters with delay repay is what actually happened. You presented yourself at your origin station to catch a certain train with an acceptable itinerary. You boarded the first suitable train heading in the right direction and made various decisions which resulted in your deviating from the intended itinerary, and arriving at your intended destination x minutes later than the if you had followed the intended itinerary. The late-running or cancellation of the train which first triggered your decision to reroute yourself defines the TOC from whom you make a claim, and the claim is based on the actual number of minutes later than the originally intended time of arrival.

So in other words, if I rerouted myself and got myself faster than if I stayed on the original routing, I would still be eligible for Delay Repay as long as my actual arrival time was at least 15 late than the original itinerary, regardless of any official itineraries on my new routing, right?

 

[yorkie]

So in other words, if I rerouted myself and got myself faster than if I stayed on the original routing, I would still be eligible for Delay Repay as long as my actual arrival time was at least 15 late than the original itinerary, regardless of any official itineraries on my new routing, right?

Yes; what matters is comparing the booked arrival time with the actual arrival time.

Providing you act reasonably and with best endeavours to minimise the delay, it would be a valid claim; the other factors don't come into it.

 

[Haywain]

So in other words, if I rerouted myself and got myself faster than if I stayed on the original routing, I would still be eligible for Delay Repay as long as my actual arrival time was at least 15 late than the original itinerary, regardless of any official itineraries on my new routing, right?

I disagree with @yorkie , if your alternative resulted in a delay below the threshold you have no claim.

 

[JBuchananGB]

The OP said that because they were uncertain as to whether by deviating from their itinerary, and staying on Gatwick Express to Victoria etc., they could still claim DR, they decided to stick with their original plan, and change at Gatwick, East Croydon & Farringdon, which resulted in a delayed arrival at Cricklewood. This was a perfectly reasonable thing to do, and they may claim DR from Gatwick Express, whose late arrival into Gatwick screwed up the rest of the journey. This assumes that the original plan was a valid itinerary. I have tried some journey planners, but I can't produce an itinerary which would achieve a 20.46 arrival in Cricklewood with the changes described. If the OP was on the 1909 GX service ex Brighton last Saturday 27 August, it was indeed 18 minutes late at Gatwick. The next available departure from there to Cricklewood was the 2002 TL service to Bedford, i.e. a direct service to Cricklewood. Perhaps if the OP shares their intended journey, and what actually happened, folk here could advise on actual DR entitlement.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So in other words, if I rerouted myself and got myself faster than if I stayed on the original routing, I would still be eligible for Delay Repay as long as my actual arrival time was at least 15 late than the original itinerary, regardless of any official itineraries on my new routing, right?

It is based on the difference between when you would have arrived with an official itinerary and when you actually did.

This does mean you sometimes lose out with cross-London journeys where you can often cross London in half of the official time and thus potentially have no claim despite de-facto being delayed.

 

[miklcct]

I have tried some journey planners, but I can't produce an itinerary which would achieve a 20.46 arrival in Cricklewood with the changes described. If the OP was on the 1909 GX service ex Brighton last Saturday 27 August, it was indeed 18 minutes late at Gatwick. The next available departure from there to Cricklewood was the 2002 TL service to Bedford, i.e. a direct service to Cricklewood. Perhaps if the OP shares their intended journey, and what actually happened, folk here could advise on actual DR entitlement.

Planned:
GX 19:09 Brighton - 19:35 Gatwick Airport
TL 19:46 Gatwick Airport - 20:21 Blackfriars
TL 20:24 Blackfriars - 20:46 Cricklewood

Actual:
GX 19:22 Brighton - 19:53 Gatwick Airport
SN 20:03 Gatwick Airport - 20:19 East Croydon
TL 20:31 East Croydon - 21:07 West Hampstead Thameslink
TL 21:13 West Hampstead Thameslink - 21:15 Cricklewood

15-29 delay claimed and approved.

If I got off the train, what would happen likely would be:
GX 19:22 Brighton - 20:24 Victoria
Tube 20:31 Victoria - 20:39 Kings Cross St Pancras
TL 20:49 St Pancras - 21:00 Cricklewood

i.e. I would likely be able to reduce my delay to 14 minutes if I stayed on the train to Victoria.