WTT 1962 Query

[Andy873]

Hi,

I've just got my latest WTT, it's easier for me to read now since many of you helped me with my 1963 one.

However, there are a couple of things in this 1962 one:

1. There is a train that runs from Blackpool Central to Newcastle from 30th June to the !st of
September inclusive (1N79 SO). It's shown as stopping at Preston but states "Not advertised" - does that mean it's not shown as arriving / leaving Preston only? If it's running every Saturday through this period it must be in a public time table?

2. This WTT was used at Rose Grove East signal box (on the East Lancs line), on the back cover there is some writing - can anyone decipher it for me please?

See attached.

Thanks,
Andy.

 

[jfollows]

Yes, Andy, the "Y" means that the station stop at Preston isn't advertised whereas the train itself will be. However just because it's running every Saturday doesn't imply that it has to be in a public timetable, but if it weren't there would be a column note applicable to the train.
Jonathan.

 

[Gloster]

If the train was not advertised at all it would have the ‘Not Advertised’ in the heading or, if in the column, without a letter before it. Using a letter specifically links it to the time that has that letter: the note will be in the same column unless space prevents it.

The words on the back look like a quick note about a change to some shunting movements or additional ones. Probably a telephone message came through and the signalman just grabbed the nearest bit of paper to write them done. They were just something that happened one day.

 

[jfollows]

An example of a train not being advertised at all is the 6am Accrington to Bamber Bridge and Chorley R.O.F. Halt on the first timetable page:

 

[30907]

Using the summer 1963 public book online, table 140 does not show the Preston arrival but table 50 shows the departure at 12.24. So it was effectively pick up only there - maybe to stop people trying to leap off as the train ran through Preston southbound?.
(You have probably worked out that the train "looped the loop" south of Preston to avoid a loco change.)

 

[Andy873]

Thanks guys,

A couple of things more if I can:

1. Page F30 - top left - is this just a doodle?

2. Pages F5 & F13 (and I saw something similar in the 1963 WTT) it says "Cen. Div. Passenger F-2-S" (Top left of page) - why is this printed (page F5)? and why does page F13 say "F-3-S" & what do they mean?

I can understand "Cen" for Central" and "Div" for Division, probably "F" for section F.

Both of these pages deal with the same route.

See attached,
Thanks,
Andy.

 

[Gloster]

1 Probably a doodle, trying to get the a biro to write, etc. No railway importance.

2 A pure guess: to do with the printing contract.

 

[DaveinAdelaide]

Hi, I am an absolute beginner in model railways. Where do I obtain timetables like you have shown for 1956 Dulverton, Somerset? Can anybody help please.

 

[Andy873]

Hi, I am an absolute beginner in model railways. Where do I obtain timetables like you have shown for 1956 Dulverton, Somerset? Can anybody help please.

Hi,

I found mine on eBay UK.

The secret is to think of a major town / area (in my case Preston) and just keep looking.

Somerset - well I guess you would have to look / search for "Working Timetable Western region" or "Working timetable 1956" etc. If you stick at it I think you'll find something.

I also found on eBay two old photos of my old station (Great Harwood) circa 1900 - great for modelling!

Andy.

 

[Gloster]

If you google Michael Clemens timetables you will find a site where you can study old timetables, although they are not for sale. Section 5 of part B (1946-1954) is a 1949 timetable for the Exeter Division which covered the lines. It is not the exact year, but timetables of rural railways did not change much and it will give you a start.

 

[30907]

2 A pure guess: to do with the printing contract.

Agree. Most printed documents have something of the sort. And S for summer timetable?

 

[Andy873]

Thanks everyone, appreciated!

Another thing has me puzzled:

Page F18 (attached) shows the train 1S78 Coventry to Glasgow Central (first column)...

In the heading it mentions FO, but it lists the train as SO?

Other trains listed can show say 10.10 SX, 10.15 SO from X to Y - this I understand but why FO and SO for 1S78?

Help please!
Thanks,
Andy.

 

[jfollows]

Thanks everyone, appreciated!

Another thing has me puzzled:

Page F18 (attached) shows the train 1S78 Coventry to Glasgow Central (first column)...

In the heading it mentions FO, but it lists the train as SO?

Other trains listed can show say 10.10 SX, 10.15 SO from X to Y - this I understand but why FO and SO for 1S78?

Help please!
Thanks,
Andy.

The Coventry-Glasgow train leaves Coventry at 8:59pm on a Friday evening, but by the time it reaches your timetable it's 1:15am on a Saturday. So the train is 1S78 8:59pm Fridays only Coventry to Glasgow, which is how it's described at the top of the column, but it runs through the area of your timetable on a Saturday morning.

 

[Andy873]

The Coventry-Glasgow train leaves Coventry at 8:59pm on a Friday evening, but by the time it reaches your timetable it's 1:15am on a Saturday. So the train is 1S78 8:59pm Fridays only Coventry to Glasgow, which is how it's described at the top of the column, but it runs through the area of your timetable on a Saturday morning.

Nice one Jonathan, I didn't spot that!

For what it's worth with this train, it must have taken its time getting to Glasgow as it weaves its way North via Bolton to Blackburn, from there it goes North again on the Clitheroe to Hellifield line.

Thanks,
Andy.

 

[Bevan Price]

Using the summer 1963 public book online, table 140 does not show the Preston arrival but table 50 shows the departure at 12.24. So it was effectively pick up only there - maybe to stop people trying to leap off as the train ran through Preston southbound?.
(You have probably worked out that the train "looped the loop" south of Preston to avoid a loco change.)

It is the same in the LMR 1962 summer timetable, 11:20 Blackpool Central, all stops to Lytham, then Preston (after doing the loop via Farington Curve Jn, Lostock Hall & Todd Lane Jn) - then Lancaster, Carnforth, Oxenholme, Carlisle (reverse), Haltwhistle, Hexham & Newcastle,
In earlier years, after Oxenholme it had called at Kirkby Stephen East, Barnard Castle, Bishops Auckland, Durham & Newcastle. Presumably it would have needed a loco change at Carnforth, Oxenholme or Tebay, as nothing larger than a 4MT 2-6-0 was allowed on the Stainmore line(which closed in January 1962).

 

[Andy873]

It is the same in the LMR 1962 summer timetable, 11:20 Blackpool Central, all stops to Lytham, then Preston (after doing the loop via Farington Curve Jn, Lostock Hall & Todd Lane Jn) - then Lancaster, Carnforth, Oxenholme, Carlisle (reverse), Haltwhistle, Hexham & Newcastle,
In earlier years, after Oxenholme it had called at Kirkby Stephen East, Barnard Castle, Bishops Auckland, Durham & Newcastle. Presumably it would have needed a loco change at Carnforth, Oxenholme or Tebay, as nothing larger than a 4MT 2-6-0 was allowed on the Stainmore line(which closed in January 1962).

The problem I keep facing is that I only remember the rail network from say the mid 1970's. It's replies like this that keep reminding me of all the routes lost in the 1960's.

There are subtle reminders too - in my 1962 WTT it lists stations that were still open, and in my 1963 one they are gone (closed / not listed).

Even with both of them, I just wish I could have travelled on some of these lines before they were taken away.

I was very "so so" about timetables, but when you actually get your hands on a WTT you see they can hold so much treasure - something most of you will already know - I'm still playing catch up.

Thanks,
Andy.