XC to Weymouth?

[HST43257]

Is there any possibility that Cross Country could have services to Weymouth? This would be as express extension of the current Newcastle to Reading and Manchester to Bournemouth services. Stock used would be a tri-mode AT300s, probably 7 or 8 cars long. They’d use the OLE between Manchester & Coventry and Newcastle & Doncaster (plus more in the future) and they’d use 3rd rail from Basingstoke to Weymouth.

Is there any way that long loops could sort the capacity issue somewhere en route? If these trains were limited stop, where would they call (between Bournemouth and Weymouth)?

 

[Gloster]

Cross country trains did run to Weymouth right up into the early days of the Voyagers. I caught one from Dorchester South to Brockenhurst, although this was probably on a Saturday.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

they’d use 3rd rail from Basingstoke to Weymouth.

You’d need to either truncate one of the half-hourly London Weymouth trains at Poole or upgrade the third-rail then.

I recommend the latter

 

[randyrippley]

Or run Reading-Westbury-Yeovil-Weymouth and use existing dual mode stock.
Might need to dual part of Castle Cary - Dorchester though

 

[Ianno87]

Is there significant untapped demand from Poole, Dorchester and Weymouth to XC destinations that is not satisfied by a relatively straightforward change of train**? Or is this another "services that used to run so must therefore have demand to run again" fallacy?


**Yes I know people prefer not to change trains. And the market of granny and grandad making an annual trip from Macclesfield to Weymouth with 4 suitcases in tow is not a significant one.

 

[Whistler40145]

Are their sufficient passenger numbers to extend XC services from Bournemouth to Weymouth?

What's the difference in journey times from Birmingham New Street to Weymouth via Reading or Birmingham New Street to Weymouth via Bristol Temple Meads, Bath Spa and Westbury?

 

[JonathanH]

Is there any possibility that Cross Country could have services to Weymouth? This would be as express extension of the current Newcastle to Reading and Manchester to Bournemouth services. Stock used would be a tri-mode AT300s, probably 7 or 8 cars long. They’d use the OLE between Manchester & Coventry and Newcastle & Doncaster (plus more in the future) and they’d use 3rd rail from Basingstoke to Weymouth.

No, absolute fantasy. I dont think that the potential demand would justify any of the following:
* a power upgrade
* extra stabling facilities
* restoring the double track on the single track section
* the new rolling stock you suggest
* the subsidy required to allow the service to run

Bournemouth is very much the natural end point of the Cross Country services and will remain so.

Extension of any other Cross Country service to Weymouth (eg from Bristol) is even more unlikely

Cross country trains did run to Weymouth right up into the early days of the Voyagers. I caught one from Dorchester South to Brockenhurst, although this was probably on a Saturday.

Yes, Summer Saturday extensions at a time when there were fewer Waterloo trains beyond Poole / Wareham.

 

[Djgr]

No, absolute fantasy. I dont think that the potential demand would justify any of the following:
* a power upgrade
* extra stabling facilities
* restoring the double track on the single track section
* the new rolling stock you suggest
* the subsidy required to allow the service to run

Bournemouth is very much the natural end point of the Cross Country services and will remain so.

Extension of any other Cross Country service to Weymouth (eg from Bristol) is even more unlikely


Yes, Summer Saturday extensions at a time when there were fewer Waterloo trains beyond Poole / Wareham.

Indeed. Cross Country resources should be focused on the core e.g. Reading to Sheffield where pre Covid it was really struggling, rather than diverted to a line which is, quite honestly, pretty handsomely provided.

 

[swt_passenger]

Is there significant untapped demand from Poole, Dorchester and Weymouth to XC destinations that is not satisfied by a relatively straightforward change of train**? Or is this another "services that used to run so must therefore have demand to run again" fallacy?

IIRC the few XC extensions during the 2012 Olympics ran almost empty. I’d be surprised if there’d be much extra demand, if enough stock was available there’s probably far better uses for it elsewhere.

 

[NSE]

Nice idea, but not necessary. Running via Yeovil, even more no way! Of course, I do like the idea of once a day services and rare rolling stock cropping up here and there! But the railway is not run for us enthusiasts! (and rightly so!)

 

[[.n]]

No, absolute fantasy. I dont think that the potential demand would justify any of the following:
* a power upgrade
* extra stabling facilities
* restoring the double track on the single track section
* the new rolling stock you suggest
* the subsidy required to allow the service to run

Bournemouth is very much the natural end point of the Cross Country services and will remain so.

Extension of any other Cross Country service to Weymouth (eg from Bristol) is even more unlikely


Yes, Summer Saturday extensions at a time when there were fewer Waterloo trains beyond Poole / Wareham.

i seem to recall it used to be Poole was the endpoint, though that could be dodgy memory

 

[JonathanH]

i seem to recall it used to be Poole was the endpoint, though that could be dodgy memory

Poole did used to be a year round start and end point for Cross Country trains, notably as it provided somewhere for the locomotive to run round the coaching stock to access Bournemouth depot at the start and end of the day. From 1991, when High Speed Trains were used on five South Coast workings during the middle of the day, only the locomotive hauled trains at the start and end of the day went through to Poole.

However, a limited number of Summer Saturday services with 47+coaches went through to Weymouth.

Voyagers are now serviced at Eastleigh.

 

[Ianno87]

Poole did used to be a year round start and end point for Cross Country trains, notably as it provided somewhere for the locomotive to run round the coaching stock to access Bournemouth depot at the start and end of the day. From 1991, when High Speed Trains were used on five South Coast workings during the middle of the day, only the locomotive hauled trains at the start and end of the day went through to Poole.

However, a limited number of Summer Saturday services with 47+coaches went through to Weymouth.

Voyagers are now serviced at Eastleigh.

I think Poole lasted until the original Operation Princess, but the short turnround time simply led to late southbound services being routinely turned back at Bournemouth anyway.

 

[JonathanH]

I think Poole lasted until the original Operation Princess, but the short turnround time simply led to late southbound services being routinely turned back at Bournemouth anyway.

No, the Winter 2002-2003 timetable shows that Poole was served at the start and end of the day only on weekdays and Saturdays with the last three Dorset finishers and one morning starter extending there. Poole did however have an all-day service on Sundays.

The last Voyagers to Weymouth (other than in 2012) ran in the Summer 2002 timetable (presumably the 1715 departure for Manchester Piccadilly on 28 September 2002) and nothing went further west than Bournemouth from May 2003.

There would appear to have been an aspiration under Operation Princess to serve Poole hourly just as I assume more frequent services to Portsmouth and Brighton were intended. What I never quite get is what the full timetable aspiration was when they started with the blank piece of paper because they never got anywhere near it.

 

[Snow1964]

Unfortunately Weymouth was a casualty of Operation Princess, it used to have trains (in summer mainly), but the concept of one or two trains a day to various destinations was dropped.

Weymouth still had a varied assortment of trains on summer Saturdays until the mid 1970s, and still a few into 1980s. I think some air conditioned rakes normally on West Coast services even appeared amongst the mk1 rakes to Weymouth in 1980s.

But modern cross country, borrowing (hiring nowadays) other operators stock for summer weekend extras is in the too difficult in fragmented railway era

 

[Ianno87]

But modern cross country, borrowing (hiring nowadays) other operators stock for summer weekend extras is in the too difficult in fragmented railway era

Not too difficult - just uneconomic. There just isn't spare stock just lying around anymore.

XC did, for example, borrow some Virgin West Coast Voyagers during one WCML block to strengthen the Birmingham-Oxford-Reading axis.

 

[The Planner]

Not too difficult - just uneconomic. There just isn't spare stock just lying around anymore.

XC did, for example, borrow some Virgin West Coast Voyagers during one WCML block to strengthen the Birmingham-Oxford-Reading axis.

Not quite, didnt get any extra Voyagers in but Virgin ran the New St Picc leg for them with Pendos so they could double up south of there.