Cheshire Bus News (was East Cheshire Bus News)

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Have Arriva now improved upon their early problems they encountered on the 88 service?
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I imagine if you visit Macclesfield and see a 27 bus you'd rather see a bus looking like this:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1667/24497878492_e2488cb431_b.jpg
opposed to one looking like this:
http://ontrainsandbuses.com/wp-cont...glandCheshire_highPeakOptareSoloKnutsford.jpg

A very good example, but everyone knows my views on the atrocious two-tone orange and blue livery applied to High Peak buses.

 

[Robertj21a]

Have Arriva now improved upon their early problems they encountered on the 88 service?
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A very good example, but everyone knows my views on the atrocious two-tone orange and blue livery applied to High Peak buses.

A very smart livery, bright and cheerful. Not so good in the earlier 'weaker' orange but much better with repaints in recent years.

 

[pemma]

A list of the contracts currently out for tender in Cheshire East is here: http://ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED:NOTICE:275313-2016:TEXT:EN:HTML&tabId=0

Does anyone know why there's an inclusion of an Altrincham to Wilmslow route in addition to the Altrincham to Knutsford via Wilmslow route?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

A very smart livery, bright and cheerful.

That sounds just like the description you might expect when describing the "pound" shops.....

 

[Greybeard33]

A list of the contracts currently out for tender in Cheshire East is here: http://ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED:NOTICE:275313-2016:TEXT:EN:HTML&tabId=0

Does anyone know why there's an inclusion of an Altrincham to Wilmslow route in addition to the Altrincham to Knutsford via Wilmslow route?

I have just seen an Arriva 88 leaving Altrincham for Wilmslow with 3 passengers on board - typical of the off peak loadings GHA used to carry on this part of the route. Surely a waste of money for Cheshire East to subsidise additional services?

 

[pemma]

I have just seen an Arriva 88 leaving Altrincham for Wilmslow with 3 passengers on board - typical of the off peak loadings GHA used to carry on this part of the route. Surely a waste of money for Cheshire East to subsidise additional services?

From what I understand Cheshire East provide a subsidy for an hourly Altrincham-Morley Green-Wilmslow-Knutsford service with additional funding coming from Waters Corp as part of a S106 agreement.

I can't think the additional Wilmslow to Altrincham service would be running at the same time as the 88 service, otherwise why would it be a separate contract. I wonder if that's for an evening/Sunday service in relation to the new Amazon fulfillment centre opening?

Personally I think it's a shame there's so much funding going on the 88 service when a decent Knutsford to Macclesfield service is really needed and Cheshire East only provide very limited funding for that service after trying to get operators to run it commercially.

 

[Greybeard33]

From what I understand Cheshire East provide a subsidy for an hourly Altrincham-Morley Green-Wilmslow-Knutsford service with additional funding coming from Waters Corp as part of a S106 agreement.

I can't think the additional Wilmslow to Altrincham service would be running at the same time as the 88 service, otherwise why would it be a separate contract. I wonder if that's for an evening/Sunday service in relation to the new Amazon fulfillment centre opening?

Personally I think it's a shame there's so much funding going on the 88 service when a decent Knutsford to Macclesfield service is really needed and Cheshire East only provide very limited funding for that service after trying to get operators to run it commercially.

It may well be that the Cheshire East strategy is to encourage Amazon staff to live in Wilmslow. Although housing costs are hardly competitive with Wythenshawe!

The 1725 88 departed Altrincham Interchange with one passenger today - admittedly it is the holiday season.

 

[miami]

It may well be that the Cheshire East strategy is to encourage Amazon staff to live in Wilmslow. Although housing costs are hardly competitive with Wythenshawe!

I hear they're building a new estate out the back of one of Paul Sidorczuk's east wing

The 1725 88 departed Altrincham Interchange with one passenger today - admittedly it is the holiday season.

At £4 for a 2 mile Altrincham-Hale Barns trip it's no wonder. Last time I went to Alty I waited for a bus to Hale Barns (the 283 or 285), a double decker pulled up at the stand and the driver parked and went for a wonder. 10 minutes later the minibus drove off through the exchange and didn't bother to pick me up.

Taxi worked fine. Glad I've moved. Buses are terrible.

 

[pemma]

It may well be that the Cheshire East strategy is to encourage Amazon staff to live in Wilmslow. Although housing costs are hardly competitive with Wythenshawe!

Don't forget that Colshaw Farm, Wilmslow and Longridge, Knutsford are overspill estates due to demand for social housing in Wythenshawe being much higher than what can be provided in Wythenshawe alone. Ironically the housing association is called Great Places Housing Group.

The 1725 88 departed Altrincham Interchange with one passenger today - admittedly it is the holiday season.

88 passenger numbers seem to have dropped since the 2 days of no service followed by the couple of weeks of reduced service. I don't know if they'll pick up in the autumn - if some people have resorted to walking or cycling along what are unlit roads I think they might revert back to the bus when the days get shorter.
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Details of bus services which will be disrupted by the Tour of Britain on 6th September are now on the Cheshire East website: http://www.cheshireeast.gov.uk/public_transport/bus/bus_service_timetables.aspx

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I hear they're building a new estate out the back of one of Paul Sidorczuk's east wing

Our east elevation is the one that is ever so geographically nearest of our property to the border with Mottram St Andrew, so you can imagine that scurilllous rumour is one without foundation....
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Don't forget that Colshaw Farm, Wilmslow and Longridge, Knutsford are overspill estates due to demand for social housing in Wythenshawe being much higher than what can be provided in Wythenshawe alone. Ironically the housing association is called Great Places Housing Group.

Have you ever visited the site of the very small council house development that was built many years ago in what is the centre of Hale Barns and you will note how many of these have been purchased?

 

[pemma]

Have you ever visited the site of the very small council house development that was built many years ago in what is the centre of Hale Barns and you will note how many of these have been purchased?

No. However, a purchased council house doesn't automatically mean the demographic profile of the people living in the houses has changed.

In Knutsford it's obvious which houses aren't still owned by housing associations as when contractors turn up to do work like new windows, new doors, new roofs etc. they always do all the houses owned by the housing association at the same time and use the same type of fittings.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

No. However, a purchased council house doesn't automatically mean the demographic profile of the people living in the houses has changed.

In Knutsford it's obvious which houses aren't still owned by housing associations as when contractors turn up to do work like new windows, new doors, new roofs etc. they always do all the houses owned by the housing association at the same time and use the same type of fittings.

Good socialists do not betray their feelings by buying local authority housing stock, as it once was, prior to the advent of the housing associations management of those same properties.

I always look at the roofs in such areas these day as a guideline.

 

[pemma]

Good socialists do not betray their feelings by buying local authority housing stock, as it once was, prior to the advent of the housing associations management of those same properties.

When I said doesn't change the demographic I mean it's still going to be housing for lower paid workers. A house being sold off doesn't mean a warehouse operative (such as those Amazon are employing) will be replaced by a restaurant manager earning a much higher salary. Although, I suppose it might affect the average age of residents as a 50 year old low paid worker is more likely to be able to afford to buy a small house than a 25 year old low paid worker.

 

[miami]

Have you ever visited the site of the very small council house development that was built many years ago in what is the centre of Hale Barns and you will note how many of these have been purchased?

Which area are you referring to? The bit on the north of Hale Road, backing onto the golf course? The very small cluster of houses on Tithebarn Road? Or do you simply look upon anything that's not on Chapel Lane or Carwood as if it's something you have a servant scrape off your shoe?

Modern housing estates are built with 'affordable housing' dotted around the estate

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Which area are you referring to? The bit on the north of Hale Road, backing onto the golf course?

That was the one that I last walked around when I was in Hale Barns.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Good socialists do not betray their feelings by buying local authority housing stock, as it once was, prior to the advent of the housing associations management of those same properties.

I always look at the roofs in such areas these day as a guideline.

It is normally a canopy over the front door which gives away the subsidised purchase of a state asset by a tenant.

 

[itsonlyme]

Yellow and blue liveried Solo YJ08 PJV seen working route 42 (Crewe- Congleton) this morning. Presumably on loan, or bought by D&G, from Courtney Coaches.

 

[pemma]

Yellow and blue liveried Solo YJ08 PJV seen working route 42 (Crewe- Congleton) this morning. Presumably on loan, or bought by D&G, from Courtney Coaches.

D&G have been using loaned buses and older Darts which they had taken out of service. We should be finding out soon who has won the new 5 year contracts for former GHA services in Cheshire East, which start in October. It could be some operators will want to acquire more buses if they win the contracts and may consequently place bids in the ongoing auctions for former GHA vehicles.

EDIT: Just noticed D&G have added KX57 FMA, KX57 FMD, KX57 FMG, YX09 FMA, YX09 FME, YX09 FMF, YX09 FMG, YX09 FML, YX09 FMM and YX09 FMO to the fleet list on their website - they are all Enviro 200s and all allocated to Crewe.

 

[mikestone1952]

The first three started with Stansted Transit which collapsed, and the first pair also spent time with Webberbus.

 

[Danfilm007]

Interesting they're getting ex - London 8.8s, whereas the 57 plates are 8.9s

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It is normally a canopy over the front door which gives away the subsidised purchase of a state asset by a tenant.

In the Wythenshawe area, one of the housing associations have installed items such as this when they last carried out external refurbishments to their properties.

 

[pemma]

Interesting they're getting ex - London 8.8s, whereas the 57 plates are 8.9s

Presumably there was a slight change to the design between 2007 and 2009 which made the bus a few cm shorter. The 11 reg former Go-Goodwins vehicles are described as 8.8m.
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D&G bus changes on VOSA

PC1090231/54 - D & G BUS LIMITED T/A D & G BUS, MOSSFIELD ROAD, STOKE-ON-TRENT, ST3 5BW
Variation Accepted: Operating between Canute Place, Knutsford and Canute Place, Knutsford given service number 300 effective from 24-Oct-2016. To amend Timetable.

PC1090231/94 - D & G BUS LIMITED T/A D & G BUS, MOSSFIELD ROAD, STOKE-ON-TRENT, ST3 5BW
Variation Accepted: Operating between Leighton Hospital, Smithy Lane, Crewe and Chestnut Avenue, Shavington, Crewe given service number 12 effective from 24-Oct-2016. To amend Route and Timetable.

PC1090231/95 - D & G BUS LIMITED T/A D & G BUS, MOSSFIELD ROAD, STOKE-ON-TRENT, ST3 5BW
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Leighton Hospital, Smithy Lane, Crewe and Chestnut Avenue, Shavington, Crewe given service number 6E effective from 24-Oct-2016.
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PC1090231/80 - D & G BUS LIMITED T/A D & G BUS, MOSSFIELD ROAD, STOKE-ON-TRENT, ST3 5BW
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Macclesfield Bus Station and Macclesfield Bus Station given service number 5 effective from 24-Oct-2016.

PC1090231/110 - D & G BUS LIMITED T/A D & G BUS, MOSSFIELD ROAD, STOKE-ON-TRENT, ST3 5BW
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Congleton Fairground Bus Station, Market Street, Congleton and Congleton Fairground Bus Station, Market Street, Congleton given service number 90/91/92 effective from 24-Oct-2016.

PC1090231/112 - D & G BUS LIMITED T/A D & G BUS, MOSSFIELD ROAD, STOKE-ON-TRENT, ST3 5BW
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Nantwich Bus Station, Beam Street, Nantwich and Stone Chair Lance, Scholar Green, Stoke on Trent given service number 78 effective from 24-Oct-2016.

PC1090231/113 - D & G BUS LIMITED T/A D & G BUS, MOSSFIELD ROAD, STOKE-ON-TRENT, ST3 5BW
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Capesthorne Road, Wistaston Road, Crewe and Capesthorne Road, Wistaston Road, Crewe given service number 8 effective from 24-Oct-2016.

So D&G won't be keeping the Beartown services (24th October is the date new 5 year contracts replace the temporary GHA replacement contracts.) It's not clear what some of their other changes involve - for instance, the number 12 registration could have been revised to include the 6E journeys or it could be another operator is taking on the 6E.

 

[Robertj21a]

Presumably there was a slight change to the design between 2007 and 2009 which made the bus a few cm shorter. The 11 reg former Go-Goodwins vehicles are described as 8.8m.
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D&G bus changes on VOSA

PC1090231/54 - D & G BUS LIMITED T/A D & G BUS, MOSSFIELD ROAD, STOKE-ON-TRENT, ST3 5BW
Variation Accepted: Operating between Canute Place, Knutsford and Canute Place, Knutsford given service number 300 effective from 24-Oct-2016. To amend Timetable.

PC1090231/94 - D & G BUS LIMITED T/A D & G BUS, MOSSFIELD ROAD, STOKE-ON-TRENT, ST3 5BW
Variation Accepted: Operating between Leighton Hospital, Smithy Lane, Crewe and Chestnut Avenue, Shavington, Crewe given service number 12 effective from 24-Oct-2016. To amend Route and Timetable.

PC1090231/95 - D & G BUS LIMITED T/A D & G BUS, MOSSFIELD ROAD, STOKE-ON-TRENT, ST3 5BW
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Leighton Hospital, Smithy Lane, Crewe and Chestnut Avenue, Shavington, Crewe given service number 6E effective from 24-Oct-2016.
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PC1090231/80 - D & G BUS LIMITED T/A D & G BUS, MOSSFIELD ROAD, STOKE-ON-TRENT, ST3 5BW
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Macclesfield Bus Station and Macclesfield Bus Station given service number 5 effective from 24-Oct-2016.

PC1090231/110 - D & G BUS LIMITED T/A D & G BUS, MOSSFIELD ROAD, STOKE-ON-TRENT, ST3 5BW
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Congleton Fairground Bus Station, Market Street, Congleton and Congleton Fairground Bus Station, Market Street, Congleton given service number 90/91/92 effective from 24-Oct-2016.

PC1090231/112 - D & G BUS LIMITED T/A D & G BUS, MOSSFIELD ROAD, STOKE-ON-TRENT, ST3 5BW
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Nantwich Bus Station, Beam Street, Nantwich and Stone Chair Lance, Scholar Green, Stoke on Trent given service number 78 effective from 24-Oct-2016.

PC1090231/113 - D & G BUS LIMITED T/A D & G BUS, MOSSFIELD ROAD, STOKE-ON-TRENT, ST3 5BW
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Capesthorne Road, Wistaston Road, Crewe and Capesthorne Road, Wistaston Road, Crewe given service number 8 effective from 24-Oct-2016.

So D&G won't be keeping the Beartown services (24th October is the date new 5 year contracts replace the temporary GHA replacement contracts.) It's not clear what some of their other changes involve - for instance, the number 12 registration could have been revised to include the 6E journeys or it could be another operator is taking on the 6E.

Could it just be that D&G simply don't know who will win the contract but have had to give 56 days notice in case it's not them ?

 

[pemma]

Contract awards should have been made by last week but I don't know for certain if they have been made.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Contract awards should have been made by last week but I don't know for certain if they have been made.

Can you be so kind as to investigate and report back to us.

 

[pemma]

Can you be so kind as to investigate and report back to us.

Given how long TSS take to respond it'll probably be quicker to wait and see what appears on VOSA.

It seems D&G have just moved the number 5 service to a different operating licence:

PD1128125/79 - D & G BUS LTD, MOSSFIELD ROAD, STOKE-ON-TRENT, ST3 5BW
Registration Accepted
Starting Point: Macclesfield Bus Station
Finish Point: Macclesfield Bus Station
Via: Weston, Upton Priory
Service Number: 5
Service Type: Normal Stopping
Effective Date: 24-OCT-2016
Other Details: Sunday and Bank Holidays

 

[Baxenden Bank]

D & G generally cancel registrations, giving the necessary 56 days notice, when they make service changes or when a contract is due to end, and then register new services in due course.

It's a good way to keep on top of the paperwork and avoid having services registered which you no longer operate.

As a passenger, it can be disconcerting, as you generally see the cancellation on VOSA before the replacement registration has been sent / processed, so you worry what is happening to your service. But that's a communication problem on the part of the new operator / tendering authority.

I still don't understand why the public can't be given access to registration information (i.e. full timetable and route rather than the brief VOSA details) as soon as they are received. Open data sharing and all that. Another reason to avoid public transport when timetable changes are kept top secret until they are almost upon you.

 

[daodao]

D & G generally cancel registrations, giving the necessary 56 days notice, when they make service changes or when a contract is due to end, and then register new services in due course.

It's a good way to keep on top of the paperwork and avoid having services registered which you no longer operate.

As a passenger, it can be disconcerting, as you generally see the cancellation on VOSA before the replacement registration has been sent / processed, so you worry what is happening to your service. But that's a communication problem on the part of the new operator / tendering authority.

I still don't understand why the public can't be given access to registration information (i.e. full timetable and route rather than the brief VOSA details) as soon as they are received. Open data sharing and all that. Another reason to avoid public transport when timetable changes are kept top secret until they are almost upon you.

I suspect that the replacement timetables for Cheshire East subsidised services, whoever operates them, will have a number of lightly used journeys cut. GHA seemed to be able to operate services at lower cost than other operators, but Cheshire East won't be able to spend more on bus subsidies. Already, route 289 is to be reduced from 4/9/16 to a skeleton midday service (3/day) with the first and last journeys cut.

 

[pemma]

Already, route 289 is to be reduced from 4/9/16 to a skeleton midday service (3/day) with the first and last journeys cut.

They'll be more journeys between Northwich and Knutsford (the busier part) than between Knutsford and Altrincham. The new timetable from Traveline is:

07:00 Northwich to Knutsford (arrive 07:36)
08:50 Knutsford to Northwich (arrive 09:26)
09:30 Northwich to Altrincham (arrive 10:45)
10:53 Altrincham to Northwich (arrive 12:08)
12:10 Northwich to Altrincham (arrive 13:25)
13:33 Altrincham to Northwich (arrive 14:48)
14:50 Northwich to Knutsford (arrive 15:26)
16:11 Knutsford to Altrincham (arrive 16:50)
16:53 Altrincham to Northwich (arrive 18:08)
18:10 Northwich to Knutsford (arrive 18:46)

GHA seemed to be able to operate services at lower cost than other operators

I think they were clever with their bids. For a route like the 289 (which gets a hefty subsidy) they knew the cheapest bid would likely win but for some of the less heavily subsided ones they expected D&G to put in a cheap bid they proposed something that would score them extra marks for quality such as on the Beartown routes.
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High Peak have cancelled the P1 and 19 from 24th October.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

High Peak have cancelled the P1 and 19 from 24th October.

On the 19 service, what is the replacement situation with regards to those destinations of Lees Lane and of McCanns, Bonis Hall Lane?