Aviation Discussion

[miami]

It might be that in the hold there is better a fire supression system. It also might be that the 'bomb-proof' blanket idea has taken off. It was touted by a university team (I think) a while ago as a solution to another Lockerbie style attack.

Aren't holds usually lower pressure, meaning less oxygen, meaning less likely for a fire to spread?

 

[gsnedders]

Aren't holds usually lower pressure, meaning less oxygen, meaning less likely for a fire to spread?

No; the pressurised fuselage encompasses the entire diameter of it and there's no pressure-wall within it. The only planes where that isn't case are freighters where the rear of the fuselage, rear of the cockpit and any crew comfort area, is inaccessible in flight.

 

[atillathehunn]

Aren't holds usually lower pressure, meaning less oxygen, meaning less likely for a fire to spread?

This is what I was referring to:

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-33650713

It wasn't a university, I apologise, but a research outfit.

I would imagine, like the poster below you, that the entire vessel is pressurised. This is an add-on which would limit the extent of a blast in the hold and potentially not result in the rapid depressurisation which causes gravity to win.

 

[atillathehunn]

And yet you said:



As if the on-board experience is the only thing worth discussing.

You also said:



and also:



Perhaps you would prefer it if the discussion was limited to those only with similar interests and opinions to your own. Maybe you would find a suitable Facebook group preferable.



Again, you suggest only opinions broadly conforming with your own, whether in content or general direction, are acceptable. Please feel free to add me to your ignore list. In the meantime this forum continues to be open to all who abide by its rules.

It is aviation. It's not the only part of it, but it's still aviation. You didn't contradict me.

Echo chamber? No. This isn't an echo chamber. I'm not going to listen to you and your opinion on circular runways because - as far as I know - your opinion is worth my own on the subject. Now, if you can prove to me you're any kind of aviation engineer/specialist with intricate knowledge on the various realms of policy, physics, risk management, aviation technicalities (user or designer or ILS/ATC systems) then maybe I'll change my opinion. But there will soon be peer-reviewed articles on the subject. I'll read those if I get the time.

 

[TheEscapist_]

Has anyone been on the British Airways Flying With Confidence course? I've decided to book it after contemplating it for a while. Loads of great reviews of it so hope it helps my fear!


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[Bletchleyite]

Has anyone been on the British Airways Flying With Confidence course? I've decided to book it after contemplating it for a while. Loads of great reviews of it so hope it helps my fear!

May be a risky strategy but watching Air Crash Investigation actually worked reasonably well to help me. It sounds silly, but it shows precisely how badly wrong things have to go for there to be a problem (it's never one thing, it takes 4 or 5, often more), and (together with Mythbusters) gets rid of the idea that crashes aren't survivable (the vast majority are provided you've got your wits about you, even given the tiny statistical chance of being involved in one - I've flown several hundred times and have had one go-around as the only thing of real interest) and other similar silly rumours like the purpose of the brace position (which genuinely does exist to stop you getting flail injuries or whacking your head on the seat in front, not for the silly purposes mentioned in conspiracy theories).

 

[fowler9]

Has anyone been on the British Airways Flying With Confidence course? I've decided to book it after contemplating it for a while. Loads of great reviews of it so hope it helps my fear!


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My sister has worked on them for Easyjet and they seem to help at leat a number of people. If only I could find it I read a brilliant article recently by (I think) a Monarch pilot explaining what all the weird sounds and sensations you feel are. As an alternative I know a number of people who have been given Diazepam by the doctor, just one for each way, and according to them it worked a treat.

I hope you find something that helps. Being able to fly provides so many opporunities and if you are able to overcome your fears can be a wonderful experience.

 

[TheEscapist_]

May be a risky strategy but watching Air Crash Investigation actually worked reasonably well to help me. It sounds silly, but it shows precisely how badly wrong things have to go for there to be a problem (it's never one thing, it takes 4 or 5, often more), and (together with Mythbusters) gets rid of the idea that crashes aren't survivable (the vast majority are provided you've got your wits about you, even given the tiny statistical chance of being involved in one - I've flown several hundred times and have had one go-around as the only thing of real interest) and other similar silly rumours like the purpose of the brace position (which genuinely does exist to stop you getting flail injuries or whacking your head on the seat in front, not for the silly purposes mentioned in conspiracy theories).

Air crash investigation is what put me off flying funnily enough! It is good know they work out how the crash happened and what is done to prevent further crashes. I generally know what all the noises are on a plane and with a general understanding of how things work but I can't shake the fear. Hopefully this helps!


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[Bletchleyite]

Good luck!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Has anyone been on the British Airways Flying With Confidence course? I've decided to book it after contemplating it for a while. Loads of great reviews of it so hope it helps my fear!

I booked one of these for my daughter's first airliner flight in November and I would have no hesitation in recommending it.

In our case I booked it flight only and not the course bit before the flight, but I do know that they do explain everything really well. You get a commentary on the actual flight as well so you'll know exactly what is going on at all times.

 

[fowler9]

Air crash investigation is what put me off flying funnily enough! It is good know they work out how the crash happened and what is done to prevent further crashes. I generally know what all the noises are on a plane and with a general understanding of how things work but I can't shake the fear. Hopefully this helps!


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Have a word with your doctor. Like I say tranquilisers may help. I took one once for a completely unrelated anxiety disorder. I only took them once despite being prescribed them for a week because they were that good that I knew they were always there if I needed them and it actually stopped the anxiety from being that severe again, not sure it works for fear of flying but there you go.

Have you flown before, is it something specific you have a fear of?

 

[berneyarms]

Has anyone been on the British Airways Flying With Confidence course? I've decided to book it after contemplating it for a while. Loads of great reviews of it so hope it helps my fear!


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I've heard only good reports of them - they go out of their way to help people overcome their fears.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've heard only good reports of them - they go out of their way to help people overcome their fears.

Indeed, for all the management seem to be out to wreck it for them, BA staff are always very professional and reassuring. And they'll pick the best for these courses.

 

[Techniquest]

Someone mentioned Air Crash Investigation, I find it tends to help reassure me quite a lot too. Not that I have any issue with getting on a plane, indeed I can never wait to get on and get racing down the runway. I'm always impatient in the queue when it comes to boarding! Even so, I always find myself watching Air Crash Investigation at least once within the week of a flight, mostly because I'm interested mind but perhaps the head does need persuading it's going to be fine too.

I do have a friend who I usually go on my world exploration trips with (Norway was an exception), who doesn't like takeoff and landing but once you level out he's much better off. Remains nervous and needs distracting all the way mind, but I would still recommend just giving it a go and be done with, as long as you're in good company with a good friend you'll be fine. Just do a little domestic flight to begin with, Birmingham to Glasgow, Luton to Edinburgh, that kind of thing.

Either way, good luck conquering your fear! You'll seriously, genuinely, not regret getting past it. This world is huge and full of amazing things to see, and you'll not see much of it if you can't fly!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Oddly, even when I was scared of flying I always liked takeoffs - that kick in your back as the engines spool up is just *fun*. Still puts a grin on my face every time.

Landings always made me nervous, though, and rough ones (particularly at Luton with the short runway with a cliff at one end) still do to some extent. Over with quickly enough though.

 

[Bald Rick]

Oddly, even when I was scared of flying I always liked takeoffs - that kick in your back as the engines spool up is just *fun*. Still puts a grin on my face every time.

Landings always made me nervous, though, and rough ones (particularly at Luton with the short runway with a cliff at one end) still do to some extent. Over with quickly enough though.

For those who don't like landings, it's worth knowing that runways lengths are determined by take offs, not landings. This is because planes (usually) land at a lower speed than they take off, and can brake harder than they accelerate.

Even with its relatively 'short' runway, planes landing at Luton only need half of it from touchdown to stop at normal braking rates. Indeed an HST could stop from 125mph in 3/4 of the length at service braking rates, which is rather gentle. An Airbus lands at around 150mph, and has much, much better brakes!

 

[Joe Paxton]

... I'm always impatient in the queue when it comes to boarding! ...

I'm impatient when I'm in the queue, because I'm impatient with actually queueing! Normally I'll hang back and get on when the queue has almost gone. Plenty others of a similar mindset. (A few almost seem to want to win the competition to be at the back of the queue and last one on!)

 

[fowler9]

Take off is the best bit but landing is quite good fun when you realise what all the sounds and feelings you get are.

 

[me123]

May be a risky strategy but watching Air Crash Investigation actually worked reasonably well to help me. It sounds silly, but it shows precisely how badly wrong things have to go for there to be a problem (it's never one thing, it takes 4 or 5, often more), and (together with Mythbusters) gets rid of the idea that crashes aren't survivable (the vast majority are provided you've got your wits about you, even given the tiny statistical chance of being involved in one - I've flown several hundred times and have had one go-around as the only thing of real interest) and other similar silly rumours like the purpose of the brace position (which genuinely does exist to stop you getting flail injuries or whacking your head on the seat in front, not for the silly purposes mentioned in conspiracy theories).

It's not at all silly to suggest that watching things going wrong actually is a brilliant way to demonstrate to someone the safety of flying.

Here's a video that did the rounds years ago (I can't believe it was recorded ten years ago!) that really demonstrates to me just how safe we are in the air.

[youtube]9KhZwsYtNDE[/youtube]

Look at the sequence of events:
Bird strike disables engine
Very quickly pilots announce "Mayday" - they remain calm.
ATC (remaining calm) prioritises aircraft for landing at Manchester on any available runway.
ATC also arrange an alternate landing site at Liverpool if the pilots wish (they don't, but the option is available to them)
Within a few minutes, the emergency services are mobilised and alongside the runway.
ATC and pilots (remaining calm) discuss their arrangements - the aircraft can pretty much do what they like in liaison with ATC - being an emergency they have priority.
They land, the aircraft is inspected, they vacate. Plans are made to go back to the stand.

Can you imagine any other situation that is as well controlled as this? This is what aviation is all about - safety and excellent communication. Everyone remained calm, multiple options were available to the pilot and the ATC and they worked closely together to get the plane back to the airport safely.

I wasn't a particularly nervous flier, but watching this video really reassured me that, when you're in the air, you're in safe hands.

 

[TheEscapist_]

It's hard to say what the fear is, I've been on many flights and got lots booked this year. I've had a go around (my first flight in about 10 years) a couple years ago. Flew to and from London city airport with its terrifying approach. Im into Aviation like i an the railways so it's hard to say really what the fear is. But yeah I agree with what most people are saying, seeing things go wrong and how they are dealt with is good to know.


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[Bletchleyite]

Yeah, London City in a prop can be rough (but fun). I have described it before as "the authentic plane crash experience without actually crashing".

 

[TheEscapist_]

Yeah, London City in a prop can be rough (but fun). I have described it before as "the authentic plane crash experience without actually crashing".

Okay, well I'm never going there on a turboprop! [emoji6] But yeah you're right, was bad enough on a nice Embraer! Have to admit tho, it's a great airport. Small, easy to get around and fast to process through!


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[AlterEgo]

Try going there on a weekday evening with the commuting crowd. I hate the place - I'm a regular up to Glasgow on the 1830. Urgh!

 

[najaB]

News to me, though others likely knew. The Loganair-Flybe tie-up is coming to an end. There are banner ads on the forum promoting it as a good news story, but is it good news for Loganair? Do they benefit from Flybe's name recognition or is it more of a hinderance?

 

[atillathehunn]

Flybe has arrived at LHR!

It would seem from press images that there was a PR fanfare - within reason - to welcome them.

Has anyone tried the service?

 

[Domh245]

Am I right in assuming that the flybe Q400s are the only Turboprops operating into Heathrow?

 

[LordCreed]

For those of you that are interested, Cityjet are doing a 20% off spring sale. Simply book with the promotion code 'Spring' before the 12th April. The code is valid for flights through to October.

Having flown with Cityjet, I'd strongly recommend them.

 

[AlterEgo]

Am I right in assuming that the flybe Q400s are the only Turboprops operating into Heathrow?

Yes. There haven't been turboprops at LHR since KLM retired their F50s.

 

[freetoview33]

News to me, though others likely knew. The Loganair-Flybe tie-up is coming to an end. There are banner ads on the forum promoting it as a good news story, but is it good news for Loganair? Do they benefit from Flybe's name recognition or is it more of a hinderance?

It could be good if they fly under there sister airlines brand BMI Regional, because the two together could worry flybe

 

[Techniquest]

Flybe has arrived at LHR!

It would seem from press images that there was a PR fanfare - within reason - to welcome them.

Has anyone tried the service?

Wahey, I like the sound of that! Good excuse to get down there and finally get Heathrow done for flyage!