Grand Central stranding passengers (28/03)?

[Starmill]

The ‘regular TOC’ fans also seem to be forgetting how easily some operators (Northern etc) throw in the towel, issue a do not travel notice and leave you to it.

Exactly. Northern pulling all services on several routes on certain Sundays because they don't have the staff is definitely comparable with cancelling your only services at a small operator like GC because it's operationally inconvenient to run them. It's not like the lines are closed, or there's been any exceptional weather or a terrorist attack, or anything else similar. It's just managerial and Ministerial incompetence. Both are serious failures which will be treated with nothing but contempt in the public sphere, it has to be said.

 

[yorksrob]

A former Chairman of BR mentioned something called "the crumbling edge of quality".

This is certainly what passengers across the network, not just GC have been subjected to over the past two years, to an alarming degree.

 

[Starmill]

To be fair with modern taxi apps it does make sense to let people arrange one themselves and reclaim, as for most these days that will be more convenient than waiting for the railway's preferred contractor to faff about.

I don't agree. Eurostar staff give out slips with links for passengers to use their own devices to book a taxi, paid for on Eurostar's account, if they're entitled to one under the conditions. This greatly lessens the demand on Eurostar's staff to do any arranging of road transport, and accordingly saves them money.

Why can't SWR do that? Any reasons beyond laziness and penny-pinching?

 

[Wallsendmag]

I don't agree. Eurostar staff give out slips with links for passengers to use their own devices to book a taxi, paid for on Eurostar's account, if they're entitled to one under the conditions. This greatly lessens the demand on Eurostar's staff to do any arranging of road transport, and accordingly saves them money.

Why can't SWR do that? Any reasons beyond laziness and penny-pinching?

lol they told us to book our own hotel when they stranded us in Amsterdam

 

[Starmill]

lol they told us to book our own hotel when they stranded us in Amsterdam

Don't get me wrong they're pretty shocking at actual customer care. It's just an example of the solution being in live use.

 

[Kite159]

Haven't they cleared their tweets before? I'm sure I remember someone mentioning it here before.

They clear tweets the day afterwards to 'avoid confusion' when someone logs in to see the XX:YY is cancelled but not noticing it related to a previous day.

Grand Central is one company I won't be rushing back to in a hurry, due to their behaviour when it comes to cancelling trains and expecting passengers to force out for a new ticket as they don't want to pay what LNER wants for ticket acceptance

 

[Blindtraveler]

To be fair with modern taxi apps it does make sense to let people arrange one themselves and reclaim, as for most these days that will be more convenient than waiting for the railway's preferred contractor to faff about. But there does need to be a guarantee it'll be paid back promptly.

Same with hotels, much easier to fire up the Premier Inn or Travelodge app and book my own than to wait for the railway or an airline to faff.

And on a purely practicality based point I'm inclined to agree, being able to fire up an app and do it myself would be fine as long as they've given me a promotional code to enter into the relevant box at the relevant time which effectively acts as a chargeback to them or whoever ensures them in the event of the brown stuff hitting the spinning metal things. Equally we don't need this to become the default setting as there are people like my parents who wouldn't have the foggiest idea how to do any of this and would still need it to be a ranged for them

 

[TUC]

I don't agree. Eurostar staff give out slips with links for passengers to use their own devices to book a taxi, paid for on Eurostar's account, if they're entitled to one under the conditions. This greatly lessens the demand on Eurostar's staff to do any arranging of road transport, and accordingly saves them money.

Why can't SWR do that? Any reasons beyond laziness and penny-pinching?

That is far preferable to expecting passengers to pay thrmselves and then reclaim. Not everyone has spare money in the bank account to pay for a ling taxi journey and wait to reclaim it/worry about whether you will get the money back.

 

[Kite159]

And saying get a taxi and claim back the money is fine. Until you can't find a taxi willing to go the long distance knowing they will be returning dead mileage (and hence will prefer the shorter fares)

 

[Blindtraveler]

And saying get a taxi and claim back the money is fine. Until you can't find a taxi willing to go the long distance knowing they will be returning dead mileage (and hence will prefer the shorter fares)

Particularly if that mileage involves travel for a controlled emissions zone (i.e. ULEZ), for which they may not be able to supply a fully compliant vehicle, and therefore incur extra charges.

If I want to be picked up from the O2 and driven back to Medway, the cab company either need to allocate a suitable ULEZ compliant vehicle, or the cost of the charge is bourne by the passenger.

That is far preferable to expecting passengers to pay thrmselves and then reclaim. Not everyone has spare money in the bank account to pay for a ling taxi journey and wait to reclaim it/worry about whether you will get the money back.

This certainly reflects my own personal position

 

[1D53]

Grand Central's amended weekend plan due to the Pontefract Landslip shows similar lack of care for the customer.

Services should have run from Streethouse but instead are starting at York and the connections between RRB and train are nonexistent. For example Sunday a bus leaves Wakefield Kirkgate at 08:17 getting to Doncaster at 09:20 - the train leaves at 09:11 and the next isn't till 13:22!

 

[Kite159]

Grand Central's amended weekend plan due to the Pontefract Landslip shows similar lack of care for the customer.

Services should have run from Streethouse but instead are starting at York and the connections between RRB and train are nonexistent. For example Sunday a bus leaves Wakefield Kirkgate at 08:17 getting to Doncaster at 09:20 - the train leaves at 09:11 and the next isn't till 13:22!

I noticed that last Monday, the replacement bus from Pontefract was due into Doncaster after the last GC for London had departed, missing it by a couple of minutes

 

[1D53]

Notice the 1523 Kings Cross to Sunderland and 1550 Kings Cross to York (vice Streethouse) both cancelled with advice to catch the 1653 Sunderland. Three trains worth of people on one might be cosy!

 

[skyhigh]

Why they have I don't know, but they absolutely do appear to have deleted all Tweets between yesterday and June 18, 2021, with the exception of one about strikes sent on 20th March. This could of course have been a panicked error. There also appear to be replies missing from yesterday, but this one was still there:

View attachment 155363

Wow, what outrageously rude bluntness to a passenger being very polite. Not "no, I'm afraid we can't, because we don't have enough drivers/guards/units", but just "no". Get lost. Sorry not sorry. We've got your money, now get stuffed.

An absolutely stinking operation which should be closed down forthwith.

Text version:
User (I obscured name and handle): OK thanks for clarifying. Any plans to add an extra service today to ease congestion?
GC: No. ^JM

For what it's worth, GC Twitter is actually done by XC staff at Birmingham. They have also been deleting old Tweets for ages, supposedly to "reduce confusion" with older disruption.

 

[CarrotPie]

For what it's worth, GC Twitter is actually done by XC staff at Birmingham.

Because they're both Arriva?

 

[skyhigh]

Because they're both Arriva?

I assume so, XC control is also responsible for GC operations rather than them having their own control team. I believe the open-access First TOCs also share control functions with other group TOCs.

 

[CarrotPie]

I assume so, XC control is also responsible for GC operations rather than them having their own control team. I believe the open-access First TOCs also share control functions with other group TOCs.

I see. I think Lumo and Hull Trains share an ops team, an MD and (possibly?) drivers.

 

[WF4HA5HE]

I assume so, XC control is also responsible for GC operations rather than them having their own control team. I believe the open-access First TOCs also share control functions with other group TOCs.

I always thought Hull Trains and Lumos control team were just the TPE control room staff in Manchester/York although I could be wrong.

 

[Haywain]

Services should have run from Streethouse

What is this comment based on - is it your opinion or something you are suggesting that GC tried/planned to do? I find it puzzling as Streethouse is on the 'wrong' side of the landslip for services to/from London and looks to be a very basic station to use.

 

[AlterEgo]

An alternative view - operator-specific tickets are cheaper because they come with greater risk. If the customer had purchased an open ticket then the issue would not have arisen.

In other words, you pays your money and you takes your chances.

A view which is fortunately not grounded in reality, as the operator does indeed have obligations to its customers.

 

[Haywain]

A view which is fortunately not grounded in reality, as the operator does indeed have obligations to its customers.

Obligations clearly don't alter the risk, just the consequence if the obligations are observed.

 

[WF4HA5HE]

What is this comment based on - is it your opinion or something you are suggesting that GC tried/planned to do? I find it puzzling as Streethouse is on the 'wrong' side of the landslip for services to/from London and looks to be a very basic station to use.

At the minute GC are calling at Wakefield Kirkgate and instead of going the normal route via pontefract Monkhill and Doncaster that way they can divert via hare park junction. Yes they are missing out pontefract but it's the next best option to get around the landslip. To call at street house they would have to change ends at street house and head back to Wakefield Kirkgate then change ends again to head back around towards hare Park Junctionm doesn't really seem viable?

 

[1D53]

What is this comment based on - is it your opinion or something you are suggesting that GC tried/planned to do? I find it puzzling as Streethouse is on the 'wrong' side of the landslip for services to/from London and looks to be a very basic station to use.

Kirkgate is blocked this weekend for Engineering work. The plan before the landslip was for services to start at Streethouse however with the landslip in situ they've diverted to York.

I always thought Hull Trains and Lumos control team were just the TPE control room staff in Manchester/York although I could be wrong.

Correct, based in Manchester.

 

[WF4HA5HE]

Kirkgate is blocked this weekend for Engineering work. The plan before the landslip was for services to start at Streethouse however with the landslip in situ they've diverted to York

Ah right I wasn't aware apologies.

 

[Starmill]

What is this comment based on - is it your opinion or something you are suggesting that GC tried/planned to do? I find it puzzling as Streethouse is on the 'wrong' side of the landslip for services to/from London and looks to be a very basic station to use.

It is what GC said they'd be doing, but this seems to have been revised - you're of course totally right to point out that it rather raised a few eyebrows to have people changing trains there, given it's a bare platform with a waiting shelter and not much else. At a guess, the landslip is part of why the Streethouse plan seemed not to see the light of day, as well as some of the bus-train connections rather having fallen apart?

 

[yorkie]

An alternative view - operator-specific tickets are cheaper because they come with greater risk. If the customer had purchased an open ticket then the issue would not have arisen.

In other words, you pays your money and you takes your chances.

Passengers still have rights under the relevant Conditions of the National Rail Conditions of Travel; purchasing a cheaper fare does not diminish those rights in any way.

 

[Deerfold]

Correct, based in Manchester.

Is that still the case after the government took over TPE?

 

[1D53]

Yep.

 

[chris_in_salop]

Passengers still have rights under the relevant Conditions of the National Rail Conditions of Travel; purchasing a cheaper fare does not diminish those rights in any way.

Accepted, but if no-one in authority is policing those rights on behalf of passengers, then in practice the rights do not exist.

 

[Bradford1]

Just wanted to say that what happened here is nothing out of the ordinary from grand central, they have been doing things like this for the last 1-2 years