Slade Green to Maidenhead Using Smartcard Ticketing

[redreni]

Modertaor Note - split from:

GWR PAYG

Hello all, I've been using the GWR PAYG smartcard for the last couple of months ever since they first introduced the scheme, despite a couple issues with barriers not reporting me tapping in or out on several occasions it's mostly been fine and it's super convinient for my kind of travel...

www.railforums.co.uk

It remains a bit of a frustration to me that one of my regular Saturday journeys (Slade Green to Maidenhead) can't be done economically other than with paper tickets.

This is because TfL's contactless PAYG scheme denies me my Network Railcard discount and so is priced entirely uncompetitively, and neither the Day Travelcard plus CDR Boundary Zone 6 to Maidenhead option, nor the simple CDR Slade Green to Maidenhead option, can be issued as e-tickets.

I've had it in mind for some time now that the answer would probably be to use either GWR's or Southeastern's or GTR's smartcard. I nearly always use GWR to reach Maidenhead. I was rather shocked, when I finally looked into it today, to find that GWR's smartcard scheme only extends to West Cornwall and in the Bristol area. How noddy is that?

When I looked at Southeastern's Key it said off-peak returns are "not available", which is enough to rule that out. It also says Railcard discounts can be added but I couldn't see confirmation that this includes the Network Railcard - Oyster PAYG allows railcard discounts but not for the Network Railcard so I guess it's not guaranteed and nobody seems to have thought to put it on the FAQs. I notice GWR haven't rolled out smartcards within the Network Railcard area at all, which may or may not be a deliberate policy.

I guess they have their uses but the limitations of these smartcards clearly make them completely unsuited to my needs so I guess I will have to continue with paper tickets for the foreseeable future.

 

[Haywain]

It remains a bit of a frustration to me that one of my regular Saturday journeys (Slade Green to Maidenhead) can't be done economically other than with paper tickets.

This is because TfL's contactless PAYG scheme denies me my Network Railcard discount and so is priced entirely uncompetitively, and neither the Day Travelcard plus CDR Boundary Zone 6 to Maidenhead option, nor the simple CDR Slade Green to Maidenhead option, can be issued as e-tickets.

I've had it in mind for some time now that the answer would probably be to use either GWR's or Southeastern's or GTR's smartcard. I nearly always use GWR to reach Maidenhead. I was rather shocked, when I finally looked into it today, to find that GWR's smartcard scheme only extends to West Cornwall and in the Bristol area. How noddy is that?

When I looked at Southeastern's Key it said off-peak returns are "not available", which is enough to rule that out. It also says Railcard discounts can be added but I couldn't see confirmation that this includes the Network Railcard - Oyster PAYG allows railcard discounts but not for the Network Railcard so I guess it's not guaranteed and nobody seems to have thought to put it on the FAQs. I notice GWR haven't rolled out smartcards within the Network Railcard area at all, which may or may not be a deliberate policy.

I guess they have their uses but the limitations of these smartcards clearly make them completely unsuited to my needs so I guess I will have to continue with paper tickets for the foreseeable future.

That's not got much to do with GWR's PAYG scheme though.

 

[redreni]

That's not got much to do with GWR's PAYG scheme though.

Sorry, not trying to derail, I just genuinely had no idea the coverage of some of these smartcard schemes was so patchy.

 

[redreni]

For clarity, those are the areas where GWR offer PAYG travel using their Touch Smartcard. That is entirely separate from the ability to load some single/return fares to smartcards, which is dependent on the fare setter for the relevant flow enabling it for smartcard fulfilment.

The brand of smartcard you hold has no impact on whether a fare is available for smartcard fulfilment - provided the issuing TOC participates in the 'standard' National Rail distribution system (i.e. not ScotRail, who have their own system).

Ah, okay.

So looking at BR Fares, the fare setter for a CDR Slade Green to Maidenhead is GWR (which makes sense as I generally do the bulk of the journey, by distance, on a GWR train and Maidenhead station is run by GWR), but I can't see anything to indicate that it's available for fulfillment to a smartcard?

I assume where the fare setter has enabled a CDR fare for smartcard fulfilment it would show as "SMART CDR" as in this example Slade Green to Waterbeach?

Do you think enabling this fare for smartcard fulfilment would, perhaps, be seen as superfluous because the journey can already be done on a contactless payment card? Whether a smartcard would provide any benefit over contactless would, for me, depend in large part on whether a Network Railcard-discounted CDR fare could be loaded onto the smartcard. But a CDR is, of course, in any event a different product than a pair of PAYG contactless single fares; for example the latter allows doubling back provided the maximum journey time is not exceeded while the former allows break of journey.

 

[MrJeeves]

I assume where the fare setter has enabled a CDR fare for smartcard fulfilment it would show as "SMART CDR" as in this example Slade Green to Waterbeach?

That's a weird oddity which is unique to GTR. I've never worked out the particular reason for it, originally theorising it was for things like keyGo but that was since proved wrong. Perhaps it is simply because they were one of the first operators to semi-widely offer ITSO and they chose to do so using separate fares?

Fulfillment methods are defined through a system called RCS whose data is not available to the public. Available fulfillment methods can be set per origin/destination pair, route and ticket type, which is why you will sometimes see a single being available as an E-Ticket and the return not being available as one, for example.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Ah, okay.

So looking at BR Fares, the fare setter for a CDR Slade Green to Maidenhead is GWR (which makes sense as I generally do the bulk of the journey, by distance, on a GWR train and Maidenhead station is run by GWR), but I can't see anything to indicate that it's available for fulfillment to a smartcard?

I assume where the fare setter has enabled a CDR fare for smartcard fulfilment it would show as "SMART CDR" as in this example Slade Green to Waterbeach?

Do you think enabling this fare for smartcard fulfilment would, perhaps, be seen as superfluous because the journey can already be done on a contactless payment card? Whether a smartcard would provide any benefit over contactless would, for me, depend in large part on whether a Network Railcard-discounted CDR fare could be loaded onto the smartcard. But a CDR is, of course, in any event a different product than a pair of PAYG contactless single fares; for example the latter allows doubling back provided the maximum journey time is not exceeded while the former allows break of journey.

At present, most cross-London journeys aren't enabled for Smartcard fulfilment as TfL barriers don't accept them. There is a project underway to resolve this, but no timescale at present.

 

[MrJeeves]

At present, most cross-London journeys aren't enabled for Smartcard fulfilment as TfL barriers don't accept them. There is a project underway to resolve this, but no timescale at present.

ITSO has been accepted throughout London since the mid 2010s, though.

Surely they didn't just skip cross-London during the ITSO on Prestige project?

 

[CyrusWuff]

ITSO has been accepted throughout London since the mid 2010s, though.

Surely they didn't just skip cross-London during the ITSO on Prestige project?

You'd have expected that to be the case, but no. LU barriers reject cross-London walk up tickets on ITSO with Code 57.

I believe there's a similar issue with using them at stations operated by TOCs other than the one that owns the flow.

So much for interoperability!

 

[Wallsendmag]

At present, most cross-London journeys aren't enabled for Smartcard fulfilment as TfL barriers don't accept them. There is a project underway to resolve this, but no timescale at present.

Yes and no TfL are being cautious about accepting cross London seasons there’s no barrier to them being accepted at the gates

 

[MrJeeves]

You'd have expected that to be the case, but no. LU barriers reject cross-London walk up tickets on ITSO with Code 57.

I believe there's a similar issue with using them at stations operated by TOCs other than the one that owns the flow.

So much for interoperability!

Beautiful... *sigh*

 

[redreni]

Me when I want a Travelcard not on a weekend.

Yes, I tend to get my Saturday paper day travelcard (and Boundary Zone extension ticket where needed) from a ticket office during the working week prior (I've been doing this ever since the Rail Minister revealed that he takes an interest in ticket offices' sales figures).

Perhaps if there's no publicly available information on which specific tickets can be loaded, I should just get a smartcard and see if I ever find it useful. Even if all I can do with it is put Network Railcard-discounted day travelcards on it, it would still be useful as I can't do that on Oyster or contactless and I am getting tired of my paper travelcard being rejected.

I don't always need to go outside zones 1-6 and when I do (e.g. when I go to Maidenhead) I assume I'm fine to just buy a paper Boundary Zone ticket and use the smartcard and the paper ticket in combination?

Is anyone able to verify that Network Railcard-discounted day travelcards can be fulfilled to smartcard?

 

[Wallsendmag]

Yes, I tend to get my Saturday paper day travelcard (and Boundary Zone extension ticket where needed) from a ticket office during the working week prior (I've been doing this ever since the Rail Minister revealed that he takes an interest in ticket offices' sales figures).

Perhaps if there's no publicly available information on which specific tickets can be loaded, I should just get a smartcard and see if I ever find it useful. Even if all I can do with it is put Network Railcard-discounted day travelcards on it, it would still be useful as I can't do that on Oyster or contactless and I am getting tired of my paper travelcard being rejected.

I don't always need to go outside zones 1-6 and when I do (e.g. when I go to Maidenhead) I assume I'm fine to just buy a paper Boundary Zone ticket and use the smartcard and the paper ticket in combination?

Is anyone able to verify that Network Railcard-discounted day travelcards can be fulfilled to smartcard?

Yes and yes. Smartcard coverage is national. All TOCs had to be part of the STNR scheme 6 years or so ago. It's mainly for seasons and day tickets. not period returns.

 

[island]

I’ve just put it through the Southeastern app which is perfectly content to sell me an off peak return from Slade Green to Maidenhead with Network Railcard discount for fulfilment to my The Key card.

 

[phoenix1589]

You'd have expected that to be the case, but no. LU barriers reject cross-London walk up tickets on ITSO with Code 57.

I believe there's a similar issue with using them at stations operated by TOCs other than the one that owns the flow.

I've had issues with a New Eltham to Oxford ticket on an ITSO which was rejected at both London Bridge mainline and Paddington mainline (as well as LU barriers and Elizabeth line at Paddington).

Investigating afterwards, the LU rejections seem to be 'expected' but I never worked out why neither of the mainline barriers rejected it.

Origin and destination, as expected, always worked.

 

[redreni]

Yes and yes. Smartcard coverage is national. All TOCs had to be part of the STNR scheme 6 years or so ago. It's mainly for seasons and day tickets. not period returns.

Lovely, thank you.

Apologies all round for getting confused between smartcards and PAYG and inadvertently hijacking a thread that was specifically about PAYG.

I've had issues with a New Eltham to Oxford ticket on an ITSO which was rejected at both London Bridge mainline and Paddington mainline (as well as LU barriers and Elizabeth line at Paddington).

Investigating afterwards, the LU rejections seem to be 'expected' but I never worked out why neither of the mainline barriers rejected it.

Origin and destination, as expected, always worked.

Yes I will certainly get any cross-London tickets I may need as a paper ticket until such time as TfL gets it's house in order with TOC smartcards and/or e-tickets.

It's almost as if they weren't really trying particularly hard to make it easy for people to use their services on a cross-London train ticket rather than on a contactless payment card...