Its more than just a registered company name being an active operators licence albeit the vehicle are branded these days as The Blackburn Bus CompanyA registered company name is not the same as a trademark though. Centrebus haven't opted to change High Peak Buses' legal details from what they were under Bowers Coaches. If your surname was Bowers and you set up a coach hire company in Liverpool using the name Bowers I doubt Centrebus would bat an eyelid. You might have to register your business using something like Bowers Coaches Liverpool Limited but you could drop the Liverpool part from your operating name.
If you set up the business in Macclesfield and registered a 58 route under the Bowers Coaches brand (competiting with their existing route) they may ask their solicitors to look into whether there are any options to explore.
Stagecoach Yorkshire use Yorkshire Traction trading as Stagecoach Yorkshire on their legals.
Yes but the individual company / fleet names were maintained even on the white coaches. The standardised poppy red / leaf green usually went to bus companies in Tilling and BET groups which had used either red or green as their primary colours. The real casualty of the change was dropping shades of cream for white as I recall.
Depends what one considers local. Western National used to have a slogan I have seen on old timetables of "Through the West of England" thus that set their geographical boundary quite well with Stroud being on the northern tip of the West Country and Penzance the southern one.
Indeed, and whilst the individual operating subsidiaries carried a fleetname, the over-riding image was that of NATIONAL - it appeared on all the publicity with no mention of the local operating company. When Stagecoach had stripes and moved from individual opco names e.g. Hampshire Bus, part of the Stagecoach Group, to being Stagecoach Hampshire Bus. So for most people, the overriding image was Stagecoach.Yes but the individual company / fleet names were maintained even on the white coaches. The standardised poppy red / leaf green usually went to bus companies in Tilling and BET groups which had used either red or green as their primary colours. The real casualty of the change was dropping shades of cream for white as I recall.
Yes but think about this. You had a Tilling business that was partially formed out of the former NOTC aka National. So you had Southern National, Western National and Eastern National, all in the same livery. How different is that compared to First in 2012 with First Devon, First Kernow and First Essex?Depends what one considers local. Western National used to have a slogan I have seen on old timetables of "Through the West of England" thus that set their geographical boundary quite well with Stroud being on the northern tip of the West Country and Penzance the southern one.
That too is a good point. One noted example was when Wilts and Dorset was amalgamated into Hants and Dorset.I think one of the problems is that in order to appease staff resistant to change there is always a temptation to make some form of concession which either sticks or eventually disappears because time has healed the wound.
… And Lancashire United Transport Limited?Snag with that is Lancahire United Ltd is a Transdev Blazefield company that is active on Companies House
LANCASHIRE UNITED LIMITED overview - Find and update company information - GOV.UK
LANCASHIRE UNITED LIMITED - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activityfind-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk
Well that's a company that appears to be owned by the Museum of Transport in Manchester.… And Lancashire United Transport Limited?
To be precise, these bus services were Western National because in the 1930s the Great Western Railway became a half-owner of the National Omnibus services that were within their area. Likewise the Southern Railway did this for the operations that were in their area, becoming Southern National, and the operations in East Anglia were similarly half-sold to the LNER to become Eastern National. The old company's overall network was a bit of a discontinuous mix, and as commented some parts were moved around later.Western National was simply the western part of the National Omnibus and Transport Co and it was simultaneously operating in Penzance and Stroud! Stroud then lost its WN buses (as did Trowbridge) in favour of Bristol fleetnames...
You are quite correct - I was just trying to simplifyTo be precise, these bus services were Western National because in the 1930s the Great Western Railway became a half-owner of the National Omnibus services that were within their area. Likewise the Southern Railway did this for the operations that were in their area, becoming Southern National,
Devon General was, of course, a BET company. Even in the 1950s/60s, WN/SN built a new set of offices in Exeter; they still exist (much modified) as part of the college IIRCCorporately Western and Southern National were a strange operation, headquartered in Exeter, a place they didn't serve, as all the network buses in that part of Devon were run by a separate company called Devon General. It was just an office building there.
Exeter certainly was an odd choice for HQ but perhaps WNOC/SNOC always hoped for what eventually happened in 1970 - the acquistion of Devon General when National House turned out to be well located almost in the heart of the empire.Corporately Western and Southern National were a strange operation, headquartered in Exeter, a place they didn't serve, as all the network buses in that part of Devon were run by a separate company called Devon General. It was just an office building there.
After the 1930 change in legislation the big four railway companies, who were some of the largest overall companies by revenue in the country, were allowed to buy half shares in bus companies, and rapidly did so all around. In those times the new and expanding larger bus operators were quite profitable. When the share of Western National was taken, the GWR "paid" for their acquisition in part by handing over the odd services they operated directly; commonly known the GWR had a pioneer operation from Helston to The Lizard, but also the GWR bus bases at Trowbridge and Stroud, outside the old National operating area, were rolled in as well. Similar happened with the narrow-gauge Corris Railway, which the GWR bought up in 1930, not for the moribund railway but for their quite successful bus operations they ran in the area, which were then soon merged in to the Crosville bus company, where now the LMS railway had 50% ownership.Exeter certainly was an odd choice for HQ but perhaps WNOC/SNOC always hoped for what eventually happened in 1970 - the acquistion of Devon General when National House turned out to be well located almost in the heart of the empire.
Though a BET operation I note that old timetables as with the WNOC/SNOC claimed association with the railways.
Stagecoach's presence in Yorkshire has always been less than straightforward. Hull Corporation Transport was bought by Cleveland Transit so for a long time Hull was run from Teeside, as I think Grimsby/ Cleethorpes was too. With the reorganisation following the purchase of Tracky which included Lincolnshire Roadcar (which already served Hull and Grimsby) it made sense for Hull and Grimsby to become part of the East Midlands operation.Part of the problem with generic branding is where two operating divisions meet. As an example, Stagecoach East Midlands and Stagecoach Yorkshire overlap in Sheffield/Rotherham/Doncaster/Chesterfield but each issue network day tickets that aren’t valid on the other. So, I could use an East Midlands day ticket to arrive in Chesterfield but not use it on local services despite the buses having the same company name and livery. Nice and confusing! There’s even the 77 Worksop - Chesterfield which is jointly run by both divisions, so the East Midland ticket is only technically valid on every other bus.
You then get oddities with the way local operations are divided up. Despite being in Yorkshire, Hull is run by Stagecoach East Midlands, while Chesterfield (firmly in Derbyshire) is part of Stagecoach Yorkshire. Nice and simple!
How often does two operators with the same fleetname crop up? In York a while back both First
and Transdev
had York emblazed on their vehicles,subsquently resolved by Transdev changing to York & Country as part of the Alex Hornby led rebranding of Transdev Blazefield operations
That incidentally lead to Lancashire United branding as The Blackburn Bus Company, while Harrogate & District became The Harrogate Bus Company
with the immediate effect that Connexions put the same a number of their vehclesTransdev Harrogate Bus Company ‘1’ 1705 - H5 ESU (YK04 JYN)
It was at this point that I realised that in reality, Transdev Harrogate and Connexions are really one in the same. Using refurbished buses with cherished registrations, duplicating services with all number of variations, and just being outright petty to one another. If you want to take a trip...www.flickr.com
- a matter which appears to have resolved itself with the Connexions vehicles being disposed of.Harrogate Coach Travel | Connexion Buses URH806
On the X1 to St James Park, leaving Harrogate Bus Station on Tuesday 9th August 2016.www.flickr.com
Really? I'm struggling to recall any examplesMore like the areas Stagecoach tried to buy out an operator, they refused, so Stagecoach set up a rival with a similar name.
Stagecoach's presence in Yorkshire has always been less than straightforward. Hull Corporation Transport was bought by Cleveland Transit so for a long time Hull was run from Teeside, as I think Grimsby/ Cleethorpes was too. With the reorganisation following the purchase of Tracky which included Lincolnshire Roadcar (which already served Hull and Grimsby) it made sense for Hull and Grimsby to become part of the East Midlands operation.
Meanwhile in South Yorkshire, Stagecoach Sheffield was (and maybe still is) a separate company the rest of Stagecoach Yorkshire. I think this is a legacy of Yorkshire Traction and Andrew's of Sheffield being separated companies.
As I noted above, they cross over in Doncaster with East Midlands operating a whole range of inter urban routes, and Chesterfield with the 77 and Pronto.All the legals are now under the Yorkshire Traction trading as Stagecoach Yorkshire version. When changes appear on VOSA they appear as this with the Barnsley address on them.
I think one reason Chesterfield is under Stagecoach Yorkshire is quite a number of routes overlap, Chesterfield even run the 43a which runs wholly in Sheffield. With East Midlands apart from the 53 in Sheffield & 19/19a in Rotherham most parts are separate.
That was all to do with one-up man ship. Transdev went through their XX Bus Company rebranding but didn't register the legal identities. Harrogate Coach Travel saw a chance to annoy their competition so registered the legal name Harrogate Bus Company thus being able to legitimately use it too.Two operators calling themselves The Harrogate Bus Company is strange though.
Really? I'm struggling to recall any examples
If anything it just caused confusion to visitors and non regular users thinking they were all the same operator or that one had acquired the other. They also registered in 2016 Harrogate and District Bus Company when Transdev have from 1988 Harrogate & District Travel.That was all to do with one-up man ship. Transdev went through their XX Bus Company rebranding but didn't register the legal identities. Harrogate Coach Travel saw a chance to annoy their competition so registered the legal name Harrogate Bus Company thus being able to legitimately use it too.
There was a BBC One drama, Donovan Quick staring Colin Firth, that was pretty much based on Stagecoach.It was happening in the 90s. ITV did one of their World In Action programmes on it at the time. More recently they used Magic Bus branding.
I remember the programme that focussed on Stagecoach's business practices in the mid 1990s. It was very much about the ability to use their financial muscle to force operators off the road. IIRC, there were interviews with Catch-A-Bus in South Shields, and with Thanet Bus in Kent. This was in the aftermath of the Darlington debacle, and it was very much on the lines of... "sell us your business or we'll run you into the ground"It was happening in the 90s. ITV did one of their World In Action programmes on it at the time. More recently they used Magic Bus branding.