Among intercity journeys? Exclude regional trains and the average will go up. Regardless, as modernrail says, LNER's offering is nothing special, nothing which should command a premium.
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LNER to pilot removal of Off-Peak tickets
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Haywain
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And my point was specifically about the speed, nothing else.
For an intercity service in the 21st Century 125mph is nothing special. Multiple routes in the UK have been doing it since By my reckoning 10 out of 24 domestic passenger train operators run trains at 125mph.
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Isn't this a frequently repeated misunderstanding?
LickeyIncliner
Member
Do you have any data to back that up? It certainly doesn't match my experience as a regular user (of daytime or early evening trains) - which is that a lot of the time the trains are busy south of Newcastle, but not between Newcastle and Edinburgh. That said there are times of the year (around Christmas/Hogmanay, and the summer holiday/Edinburgh Festival period) when loads to/from Edinburgh are much higher, plus specific dates such as those of rugby internationals.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Nothing specific, just looking at how often they show as "full".
If you're right though the post Dec 2024 timetable should bring a significant improvement, as it speeds up one of the Edinburghs and adds a Newcastle semifast?
I think what they were getting at was the low outturn availability of any seats London - Edinburgh on the fast trains (especially given the booking system is currently not capable of offering a different seat for different parts of the journey, albeit you can get around this manually, or use Trainsplit).
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
I'd agree.
We've had this discussion on the forum many times, and it's been shown that the vast majority of runs do reach 140 or very close to it between Stratford and Ebbsfleet and Ebbsfleet and Ashford.
I'm not sure what all this has to do with LNER's fares hike, though...?
MrJeeves
Established Member
Yep... Hit ~220 kmh last year on a Southeastern on the way to Ashford.
Stemmed from speed increasing capacity, but seems to have strayed a bit far from the thread's aim now.
jack31439
Member
So a question - if I want to buy an off peak return that would be valid inclusive from Newcastle to London, what start and end points could I put in a journey planner to get a valid itinerary for this. Basically want to circumvent the single/off peak restraints. Tried Metrocentre to Clapham Junction but that doesn't seem to work. I am using the rail staff portal if it makes a difference, may try on the forum's ticket site for options (obviously not able to use priv on this). Cheers!
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Although that isn’t available as a return ticket, it is available as a super off-peak single (priced at half the price of the super off-peak return).
There are no LNER priced return tickets anywhere (there are some short distance returns but they’re not relevant in this case)
Apologies, keep forgotten that all returns have been removed.
They've even managed to screw up off peak returns to beyond their territory.
CompactDstrxion
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Glasgow to London (Routed Any Permitted)? But this is marginally more expensive than off peak singles using Manors.
Don't know if there's anything cheaper.
Every Javelin I’ve been travelling on has reached 140mph on HS1.
There has been a false rumour circulating for years that they run at 125mph normally, and only do 140mph on special occasions/to make up time. I’d love to know where it originated!
(Apologies slightly off topic).
Wallsendmag
Established Member
You'd be surprised just how far LNER pricing reaches.But I have to ask where have you been for the last year when these changes came in?
Yes... Glasgow to Preston (Lancs) route Any Permitted.
1st Class Anytime Return - a bargain at £454.40 !
Wallsendmag
Established Member
I think all but 3 stations in Scotland to London, Merseyside to Scotland ........
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Why on earth do they price flows where you can't even use them? That should be an Avanti or TPE flow, really.
Even the ones on the line from Carlisle to Ayr [to London]??
Haywain
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No. It's more than 3, and LNER doesn't price most of the fares to south west Scotland from London.
D6700
Member
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Blimey, you are right. It is utter madness that LNER control such fares.
I've often felt they exhibit characteristics that could be described as controlling and coercive, but it looks like megalomania is another to add to the list!
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Does the Any Permitted allow travel via the ECML? That might make sense - there are also route Carlisle fares set by Avanti which are considerably cheaper.
I've got to admit that I was aware of and happy with the change to single pricing, but wasn't aware that the annoying route York limitation had been put in. Since lockdown I've mostly been focusing on getting Lumos or going first class to avoid LNERs standard seating.
CompactDstrxion
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Yes it does
Indeed. Penzance via London was the specific example I was thinking of !
I find it difficult to understand how over £450 for a domestic rail journey of such length / duration makes sense, when you consider the competing modes of transport.
Travelling via ECML for this journey would be pretty unlikely to the vast majority of prospective passengers.
Of course, if it's a day trip and you can "slum it" in standard class and go via Carlisle (the obvious route), the Off-Peak Day Return is a relative bargain at only £49.40 !
Wallsendmag
Established Member
Ayr to London is in there as is Carlisle
Haywain
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But not for the Any Permitted fare, so LNER are not the lead operator for fares setting.