SWR queries

Last week I spent two days covering all the routes worked by class 455s. My first observation is that the schedules are not very challenging, apart from the infamous Shepperton line. The Cobham line trains seem to take four minutes longer than in 2011. The Kingston loop going clockwise is very slow.

At Waterloo, stopping trains on the Wimbledon routes use platform 5, 4, 3 and 1 in a repeating pattern so there is only one conflict roughly every 15 minutes. Platform 2 sees very little use off peak. Why is 5 used in preference to 2 as the former conflicts with moves in and out of platform 6? Most trains have about 10 minutes but curiously the xx01 and xx31 arrivals from Hampton Court wait for 23 minutes to form the xx24 and xx54 departures. These would have formed the xx09 and xx39 to Guildford via Bookham but those paths are not used anymore. Given the known timekeeping problems on the Shepperton line, it is surprising that the departures have not been rearranged so the the xx01/xx31 work the Shepperton departures. This would give three or five minutes longer turnround for trains working on and off the Shepperton line, and solve the problem of cumulative delays. All the other routes have much longer turnrounds at the country end.

There are three pairs of 458s on the Wimbledon line. This is surprising given the three booked pairs of 455s to Reading. Wouldn't it be simpler to keep the 458s on the Windsor side and run the whole Wimbledon side with 455s? This would also eliminate any crew problems with my suggestion in the previous paragraph.

The Hampton Court trains forming the xx24 and xx54 is actually the same as pre-Covid. The xx09 and xx39 were formed off the arrival from Chessington at approx xx15 and xx45. That was a change around 2019 to attempt to improve timekeeping on Suburban services generally by introducing some longer turnarounds at Waterloo. It didn't address the key problem though, Shepperton services.

The 458 diagrams are ones which were previously 707. Shepperton was diagrammed near exclusively 707 for several years to attempt to improve performance. Post-Covid they have had to be replaced with 458s, or the 707/ 458 diagrams switched to other routes to attempt to tackle overcrowding on a few services caused by the timetable reductions and loss of 456s.

The lack of use of platform 2 off-peak is simply because the current timetable is the pre-Covid one with some trains missing, mainly the xx09 and xx39 services. The departures towards Epsom which all had longer turnarounds at Waterloo tended to use 1 and 2 alternately.

Bikeman78 said:

The Kingston loop going clockwise is very slow.

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The clockwise (2Kxx) services take the same length of time as the 2Oxx ones, but the long dwell at Kingston makes it feel longer. It makes up for them only stopping at Queenstown Road half the time.

Shepperton services have always been a bit of a basket case - although when SW(?T?R) decided to make it 707 only, there was a drastic improvement in timings up and down the route. So with the right stock it’s quite easily doable.

As the 707s left, they did add an extra minute on the departure at Shepperton (xx10/40 to xx11/41) plus dropping the contraflow peak Earlsfield call, but it’s relatively pointless when the corridor is so busy, you may as well keep the Earlsfield call in as it’s only going to be able to catch signals as the one ahead of it.

The 455s (or really anything they can physically sling onto it which is everything except 444s) won’t ever be able to make it, but the timetable interworks with so many different parts of the network (Kingston rounders, then onto mainline, through Wimbledon, through Clapham and then into the Waterloo throat) they haven’t got any other options.

TEW said:

The Hampton Court trains forming the xx24 and xx54 is actually the same as pre-Covid. The xx09 and xx39 were formed off the arrival from Chessington at approx xx15 and xx45. That was a change around 2019 to attempt to improve timekeeping on Suburban services generally by introducing some longer turnarounds at Waterloo. It didn't address the key problem though, Shepperton services.

The 458 diagrams are ones which were previously 707. Shepperton was diagrammed near exclusively 707 for several years to attempt to improve performance. Post-Covid they have had to be replaced with 458s, or the 707/ 458 diagrams switched to other routes to attempt to tackle overcrowding on a few services caused by the timetable reductions and loss of 456s.

The lack of use of platform 2 off-peak is simply because the current timetable is the pre-Covid one with some trains missing, mainly the xx09 and xx39 services. The departures towards Epsom which all had longer turnarounds at Waterloo tended to use 1 and 2 alternately.

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Thanks. Are the four trains to Epsom ever likely to come back? If not then the timetable could be tweaked a bit. For example, the Shepperton trains could use the xx09 and xx39 paths to give a bit of recovery on that route. Obviously they would have to be formed off a different arrival but once everything is worked by 701s, that should be less of an issue.

Bikeman78 said:

Thanks. Are the four trains to Epsom ever likely to come back? If not then the timetable could be tweaked a bit. For example, the Shepperton trains could use the xx09 and xx39 paths to give a bit of recovery on that route. Obviously they would have to be formed off a different arrival but once everything is worked by 701s, that should be less of an issue.

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Difficult to say. Elsewhere (e.g. Southeastern, Greater Anglia) we're seeing timetables being improved with extra services but SWR does seem to be very slow in recovering from the post-Covid cuts compared to many other London area TOCs.

Perhaps a lot of it is down to lack of stock, though, and when the 701s arrive we will see SWR starting to restore services.

Bikeman78 said:

Thanks. Are the four trains to Epsom ever likely to come back? If not then the timetable could be tweaked a bit. For example, the Shepperton trains could use the xx09 and xx39 paths to give a bit of recovery on that route. Obviously they would have to be formed off a different arrival but once everything is worked by 701s, that should be less of an issue.

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A timetable change was planned when 701s were fully rolled out, who knows what the plans are now.

TEW said:

A timetable change was planned when 701s were fully rolled out, who knows what the plans are now.

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First point makes perfect sense, but there's no point in meddling/tweaking the longer term TT in the current situation. They need to get to a point where a line can be drawn under all this current mess, and start afresh (as was done for 2004 revamp perhaps)?

TEW said:

The lack of use of platform 2 off-peak is simply because the current timetable is the pre-Covid one with some trains missing, mainly the xx09 and xx39 services. L

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This is a problem across SWR. Their current timetable isn't a carefully thought out plan, it's the pre-covid timetable but with various services arbitrarily chopped out, causing poor connections and uneven service intervals in many places.

nw1 said:

Difficult to say. Elsewhere (e.g. Southeastern, Greater Anglia) we're seeing timetables being improved with extra services but SWR does seem to be very slow in recovering from the post-Covid cuts compared to many other London area TOCs.

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Chicken and egg - is it that passenger numbers are down so the timetable has been cut, or is it that the timetable is so poor and trains are so overcrowded and unreliable, that passengers won't use them?

nw1 said:

Perhaps a lot of it is down to lack of stock, though, and when the 701s arrive we will see SWR starting to restore services.

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This year, next year, sometime, never. The 701s are like nuclear fusion, they're always going to solve all our problems at some unspecified time in the future. And like "jam tomorrow", it never happens.

DelW said:

This is a problem across SWR. Their current timetable isn't a carefully thought out plan, it's the pre-covid timetable but with various services arbitrarily chopped out, causing poor connections and uneven service intervals in many places.

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Indeed, perhaps they are waiting for the 701s though.

DelW said:

Chicken and egg - is it that passenger numbers are down so the timetable has been cut, or is it that the timetable is so poor and trains are so overcrowded and unreliable, that passengers won't use them?

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Given that other TOCs seem to be restoring most of the pre-Covid service I do wonder whether it is an SWR-specific problem.

DelW said:

This year, next year, sometime, never. The 701s are like nuclear fusion, they're always going to solve all our problems at some unspecified time in the future. And like "jam tomorrow", it never happens.

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It is interesting to know why SWR seem to be doing particularly badly in terms of service restoration compared to some other TOCs.

well stock is disappearing without replacement, so they don't have enough train to run a pre covid timetable until the 701s ever run fully in service