• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Ember: Electric coach service

T

Tayway

Member
Joined
17 May 2021
Messages
144
Location
Scotland
Two new routes have been announced today – the E3X starting tomorrow (7 May) and the E1X next Tuesday (14 May).

www.ember.to

News

Find out what's new at Ember
www.ember.to www.ember.to

We'll be launching some additional services over the next couple of weeks. As well as providing express connections from Dundee to Edinburgh and Glasgow, these will connect new stops to the Ember network.
Click to expand...
The E3X will only stop at Dundee, Perth City Centre and Glasgow (four a times day Glasgow to/from Perth, with two extending out to Dundee).

The E1X will stop at Dundee, Kinross, Edinburgh and Wallyford P&R to charge, which explains this sighting from a couple of months ago.
scosutsut said:
Didn't get a registration, but curiously saw an Ember coach at Wallyford Park & Ride this afternoon around 1230.

It appeared to be testing a new electric charger in the bus stops beside the P&R (that I didn't know were there)

Bit out the way for them?
Click to expand...
This is only two a day to start with, but I imagine it will be very popular since the 1hr30 journey time from Dundee to Edinburgh is faster than Citylink and Flixbus.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Jordan Adam

Jordan Adam

Established Member
Joined
12 Sep 2017
Messages
5,549
Location
Aberdeen
FlybeDash8Q400 said:
That might be a new candidate for the most pointless route I have ever seen. Who on earth needs to make such a journey? I could understand an E1X between Dundee and Edinburgh, but Wallyford? Wow that’s crazy.
Click to expand...
318266 said:
The only vaguely useful run is the 1651 from Edinburgh to Wallyford on the weekend - other than that can't see any reason to use that part of the E1X for anything other than very niche enthusiast loops.
Click to expand...
If the coach is going to Wallyford to recharge anyway then surely it makes sense to just run it in service and open up new opportunities even if they are niche. Certainly better than running the coach out of service from the city centre.
 
FlybeDash8Q400

FlybeDash8Q400

Established Member
Joined
26 Jun 2018
Messages
1,732
Location
Edinburgh
Jordan Adam said:
If the coach is going to Wallyford to recharge anyway then surely it makes sense to just run it in service and open up new opportunities even if they are niche. Certainly better than running the coach out of service from the city centre.
Click to expand...
I figured this might be the reason for it, but still can’t see it working. Wallyford is a considerable distance outside of Edinburgh City Centre, a good 20-30 minutes anyway. There’s surely a closer charger than that? Or at least could’ve explored a better option. Whole thing seems a waste of electricity to me.

stevenedin said:
It’s a good route for people from East Lothian heading to Dundee and Kinross. There is a park and ride for people to drop their car off.
Click to expand...
You mean it’s good for the one person that will probably use it! And that’s likely to be an enthusiast or a lost tourist.

If you’re making a journey from Wallyford to Dundee, I reckon something like 90% of people would do it by train or by car. The remaining 10% are probably free bus pass holders so cost wins.

The E1X will do very well between Dundee and Edinburgh, it’s the waste of an extension to East Lothian that just seems a poorly thought out idea to charge.
 
MCR247

MCR247

Established Member
Joined
7 Nov 2008
Messages
9,655
FlybeDash8Q400 said:
I figured this might be the reason for it, but still can’t see it working. Wallyford is a considerable distance outside of Edinburgh City Centre, a good 20-30 minutes anyway. There’s surely a closer charger than that? Or at least could’ve explored a better option. Whole thing seems a waste of electricity to me.


You mean it’s good for the one person that will probably use it! And that’s likely to be an enthusiast or a lost tourist.

If you’re making a journey from Wallyford to Dundee, I reckon something like 90% of people would do it by train or by car. The remaining 10% are probably free bus pass holders so cost wins.

The E1X will do very well between Dundee and Edinburgh, it’s the waste of an extension to East Lothian that just seems a poorly thought out idea to charge.
Click to expand...
I think it’s easy for us on a forum to look at a company’s final decision (I.e. running from Wallyford to Dundee) and say “that’s daft, there must be better options than that. Why didn’t they consider these?” when we actually have no idea what the company has looked into and considered before reaching that final decision. It seems rather unlikely that someone just shouted “Wallyford” and the whole company just ran with it without even looking into alternatives.

Maybe there is a closer charger, but is it expected to be available at the times it’s needed? What are the costs of the other chargers, maybe they’re closer but maybe they’d cost double to use and would mean higher ticket prices?
 
PG

PG

Established Member
Joined
12 Oct 2010
Messages
2,890
Location
at the end of the high and low roads
MCR247 said:
I think it’s easy for us on a forum to look at a company’s final decision (I.e. running from Wallyford to Dundee) and say “that’s daft, there must be better options than that. Why didn’t they consider these?” when we actually have no idea what the company has looked into and considered before reaching that final decision.
Click to expand...
Seconded. Ember do seem to know what they're doing, so no doubt Wallyford makes sense from a business perspective.
 
P

Porty

Member
Joined
31 Mar 2020
Messages
84
Location
Edinburgh
FlybeDash8Q400 said:
I figured this might be the reason for it, but still can’t see it working. Wallyford is a considerable distance outside of Edinburgh City Centre, a good 20-30 minutes anyway. There’s surely a closer charger than that? Or at least could’ve explored a better option. Whole thing seems a waste of electricity to me.


You mean it’s good for the one person that will probably use it! And that’s likely to be an enthusiast or a lost tourist.

If you’re making a journey from Wallyford to Dundee, I reckon something like 90% of people would do it by train or by car. The remaining 10% are probably free bus pass holders so cost wins.

The E1X will do very well between Dundee and Edinburgh, it’s the waste of an extension to East Lothian that just seems a poorly thought out idea to
MCR247 said:
I think it’s easy for us on a forum to look at a company’s final decision (I.e. running from Wallyford to Dundee) and say “that’s daft, there must be better options than that. Why didn’t they consider these?” when we actually have no idea what the company has looked into and considered before reaching that final decision. It seems rather unlikely that someone just shouted “Wallyford” and the whole company just ran with it without even looking into alternatives.

Maybe there is a closer charger, but is it expected to be available at the times it’s needed? What are the costs of the other chargers, maybe they’re closer but maybe they’d cost double to use and would mean higher ticket pr
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

FlybeDash8Q400 said:
I figured this might be the reason for it, but still can’t see it working. Wallyford is a considerable distance outside of Edinburgh City Centre, a good 20-30 minutes anyway. There’s surely a closer charger than that? Or at least could’ve explored a better option. Whole thing seems a waste of electricity to me.


You mean it’s good for the one person that will probably use it! And that’s likely to be an enthusiast or a lost tourist.

If you’re making a journey from Wallyford to Dundee, I reckon something like 90% of people would do it by train or by car. The remaining 10% are probably free bus pass holders so cost wins.

The E1X will do very well between Dundee and Edinburgh, it’s the waste of an extension to East Lothian that just seems a poorly thought out idea to charge.
Click to expand...
I live in East Lothian and it will be handy for me. Lots of free parking, easy connections with trains, East Coast buses113, 124, and 2 mins from the X6, and Lothian 44 for pretty much all of the key settlements in East Lothian (excepting Dunbar). Potentially could turn into a key hub for East Lothian public transport. Note that the news on the Ember web page says it's initially 2 services per day. Even with the timetable from 14th May it's useful.
 
Y

Yorkshireguy

Member
Joined
20 Aug 2014
Messages
20
Location
UK
Ember already run the E10 as a “dead mileage” run between their depot in the north of the city and the city centre. Saying that, I almost had a legitimate use for it the other day for a subsequently aborted trip to Argos. These types of trips are nothing new, and it’s a neat way of covering some of the costs of running out of service that can benefit those who happen to be en-route.

Looking forward to seeing how these services get on - the E3X serving Perth City Centre (vice Broxden) and running fast to both Glasgow and Dundee seems an interesting proposition.
 
N

NIT100

Member
Joined
10 Aug 2022
Messages
95
Location
Glasgow
FlybeDash8Q400 said:
I figured this might be the reason for it, but still can’t see it working. Wallyford is a considerable distance outside of Edinburgh City Centre, a good 20-30 minutes anyway. There’s surely a closer charger than that? Or at least could’ve explored a better option. Whole thing seems a waste of electricity to me.
Click to expand...
There are two 150kW CCS Chargers at Wallyford P&R, with (Short) coach bays. I think this is pretty much the only public charger available in Edinburgh for long vehicles. Each has a bay for vehicles up to 12m. There are some other public chargers at or above 150kW in Edinburgh but none would accommodate a coach. Only other option in Edinburgh would be an agreement to use chargers at Lothian's Central Depot, much like Citylink using First Glasgow's Caledonia depot for charging.

AFAIK the stopping E1 and E3 services are eligible for BSOG (Bus Service Operators' Grant); will these new express routes also be eligible?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
D

Dens Lad

Member
Joined
2 Mar 2024
Messages
16
Location
Glasgow
I've never seen these registered with the commissioners. I wonder when they will turn up on the VOSA website.
 
GusB

GusB

Established Member
Associate Staff
Buses & Coaches
Joined
9 Jul 2016
Messages
6,696
Location
Elginshire
Dens Lad said:
I've never seen these registered with the commissioners. I wonder when they will turn up on the VOSA website.
Click to expand...
Try again! ;)

There are 3 services currently registered:

E3 Dundee - Glasgow: https://www.vehicle-operator-licens...registered-local-bus-services/details/618322/
E1 Dundee - Edinburgh: https://www.vehicle-operator-licens...registered-local-bus-services/details/618321/
E10 Michelin Scotland - Dundee Greenmarket: https://www.vehicle-operator-licens...registered-local-bus-services/details/618346/

They have to be registered if there are stops within 15 miles as the crow flies.
 
GusB

GusB

Established Member
Associate Staff
Buses & Coaches
Joined
9 Jul 2016
Messages
6,696
Location
Elginshire
Simon75 said:
How come they won't be eligible ?
Click to expand...
Bus Service Operators' Grant in Scotland has been replaced by a different scheme.

Transport Scotland | Bus Services Operators Grant

Find out how Transport Scotland help to maintain affordable bus routes across the nation using funding initiatives.
www.transport.gov.scot www.transport.gov.scot
This funding will cease on 31 March 2022 - and is replaced with the Network Support Grant.
Click to expand...

However, going into the subject in any depth would be taking the thread off-topic.
 
D

Dens Lad

Member
Joined
2 Mar 2024
Messages
16
Location
Glasgow
GusB said:
Try again! ;)

There are 3 services currently registered:

E3 Dundee - Glasgow: https://www.vehicle-operator-licens...registered-local-bus-services/details/618322/
E1 Dundee - Edinburgh: https://www.vehicle-operator-licens...registered-local-bus-services/details/618321/
E10 Michelin Scotland - Dundee Greenmarket: https://www.vehicle-operator-licens...registered-local-bus-services/details/618346/

They have to be registered if there are stops within 15 miles as the crow flies.
Click to expand...
Naw I’ve seen them before on the site but no sure if there were having to get varied as they are new journeys?
 
S

Stan Drews

Established Member
Joined
5 Jun 2013
Messages
1,588
Simon75 said:
How come they won't be eligible ?
Click to expand...
Services that don’t have regular stops don’t meet the criteria.

If you want to read up on the various conditions, this link should help point you in the right direction.

Network Support Grant | Transport Scotland

www.transport.gov.scot www.transport.gov.scot

NSG Eligibility​

The Network Support Grant will be payable to operators who are:

  • Operating a local bus service as defined in section 2 of the Transport Act 1985.
  • Operating a community transport service under a section 19 or section 22 permit.
  • Whose service(s) meet the further requirements detailed in the Bus Service Operators Grant (Scotland) Regulations 2002, as set out in the guidance document.
  • Demonstrate they are meeting the Fair Work First principles.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Top