Kings Cross mainline to Victoria Line

SGS · 24 Feb 2014

I did this interchange recently, for the first time since the Underground station was rebuilt. It seemed like an awfully long walk, mainly down a long straight corridor. I didn't mind the walk particularly, but I wouldn't like to be late for a train at the mainline station and have to dash along there.

My recollection from doing this change regularly some years ago, was that the interchange was a much shorter distance. Am I missing a trick here? Is there a shorter route in the new station layout?

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Mojo · 24 Feb 2014

From platform level follow the signs to 'Way out Euston Road' - there are escalators leading up from the lower concourse at platform level directly to the Tube ticket hall.

If you enter the station from the steps to the right of the awning at the front of the station, then turn left at the bottom of the stairs (following signs to the Met, Circle & Hammersmith) and this takes you to the Tube ticket hall where there are escalators straight down to the platforms). However be aware that due to congestion, access to the Tube lines from the Tube ticket hall can sometimes be restricted to customers exiting only, and you have to use the new Northern ticket hall.

user15681 · 24 Feb 2014

Admittedly I don't use Kings Cross all that regularly, but when I do I can't say I've ever noticed a long walk to the Victoria line. As it's such a big station though, spread out over somr area, it's inevitable there will be long walks. I seem to remember the interchange between the Victoria line and Piccadilly line being rather long.

I guess it also depends which entrance you use!

edwin_m · 24 Feb 2014

If you come out of the barriers behind the buffer stops the signs point to the Underground entrance immediately to the right. From here the signed route to the Victoria line is to double back to the northern ticket hall (underneath the new semicircular concourse), double back again down the escalators, turn left and then a very long walk down the tunnel to the Victoria line at the far end (well not quite, it continues to a part-time exit in the former Thameslink station).

As Mojo suggests, the route via the Tube ticket hall is likely to be quicker except at times of severe congestion. This can also be accessed from the other entrance in the square in front of Kings Cross, further away from the main line station.

Max · 24 Feb 2014

Mojo said:
...turn left at the bottom of the stairs (following signs to the Met, Circle & Hammersmith) and this takes you to the Tube ticket hall where there are escalators straight down to the platforms).

Indeed, this is the crucial moment. Do not follow the Victoria line signs here as you will end up going a very, very long way round. A few weeks ago, somebody had written "Victoria Line (quick way)" underneath the Circle/Met/H&C sign, but sadly I think it's been removed!

philjo · 24 Feb 2014

A one way system is in operation during the morning peak hour to regulate the flow of passengers, so all of the barriers on the direct route from the original ticket hall are set for exit only so at these times the only access to any deep level line is via escalators in the northern ticket Hall.

There is a shortcut passage between Piccadilly & victoria lines but it isn't signed very well.

transmanche · 24 Feb 2014

I think a plan of the station layout might help:

The original exit from the Victoria line platforms (VIC) was via the Tube Ticket Hall (TTH). This is now signposted for Euston Road etc. Whilst for access to King's Cross and St Pancras International the signs direct you to the passageway from VIC HUB via PIC HUB to the Northern Ticket Hall (NTH).

The passageway between VIC HUB and PIC HUB was originally the tunnel used to access King's Cross Thameslink station - and you can see on the plan that it continues south east from VIC HUB towards the old Thameslink station - which is still used as a part-time entrance to the tube station. The original passageway has been extended from PIC HUB to NTH.

As to why they send you 'the long way round'? As others have suggested, it's simply capacity management. LU are generally pretty good at using tricks like this to keep the flow of passengers moving. It's also worth noting that the 'new' route provides step-free access from train[*] to street/King's Cross/St Pancras Intl.

* Certainly for the Victoria line. The Piccadilly line may only be step-free to the platform, I'm not sure if they have level boarding on the Piccadilly line platforms (PIC). The Northern line platforms (NTL) have a different step-free route via TTH.

spinba11 · 24 Feb 2014

transmanche said:
I think a plan of the station layout might help:

The original exit from the Victoria line platforms (VIC) was via the Tube Ticket Hall (TTH). This is now signposted for Euston Road etc. Whilst for access to King's Cross and St Pancras International the signs direct you to the passageway from VIC HUB via PIC HUB to the Northern Ticket Hall (NTH).

The passageway between VIC HUB and PIC HUB was originally the tunnel used to access King's Cross Thameslink station - and you can see on the plan that it continues south east from VIC HUB towards the old Thameslink station - which is still used as a part-time entrance to the tube station. The original passageway has been extended from PIC HUB to NTH.

As to why they send you 'the long way round'? As others have suggested, it's simply capacity management. LU are generally pretty good at using tricks like this to keep the flow of passengers moving. It's also worth noting that the 'new' route provides step-free access from train[*] to street/King's Cross/St Pancras Intl.

* Certainly for the Victoria line. The Piccadilly line may only be step-free to the platform, I'm not sure if they have level boarding on the Piccadilly line platforms (PIC). The Northern line platforms (NTL) have a different step-free route via TTH.

All lines at Kings X are step-free to train.

SGS · 24 Feb 2014

OK, so that's signs for Euston Road when on the way out, and signs for the Metropolitan line on the way in. Thanks chaps.

3141 · 2 Mar 2014

Last August Bank Holiday my wife and I returned on Eurostar from a trip to France.

We had to go through a passport check at ground level beneath the Eurostar platforms at the south end of St. Pancras International station. Its the first time Id been on Eurostar so I dont know if this check is normal, but it seemed unnecessary as our passports had been checked at Lille before we got on the train.

Anyway, having got through that we turned southwards towards the Underground we hoped and reached the Western Ticket Hall. Thats rather a grandiose name as its really just a wide passageway with ticket machines, and the only Underground lines you can access from it are the Metropolitan, Circle and H. and C.

We continued onwards and reached the original tube ticket hall, where unfortunately no-one was being allowed down the escalators, so we had to head on towards the Northern Ticket Hall. By this time we were following signs towards St. Pancras International, where we had started.

From the Northern Ticket Hall we had to take the long route described by earlier posters in order to get to the Victoria Line.

The expanded Kings Cross Underground station does not impress me. The Grand Ticket Hall Tour is probably not high up the list of sights visitors to London want to see. A travellator in that long passage would have been a very good idea. As they probably wont undertake another major enlargement of Kings Cross for at least a hundred years people are going to have to put up with a situation which, from the passengers point of view, is pretty poor.

Nym · 2 Mar 2014

You do realise of course that the deep level lines are signed in St Pancras in such a way that leads you directly to the Northern Ticket Hall?

3141 · 3 Mar 2014

Nym said:
You do realise of course that the deep level lines are signed in St Pancras in such a way that leads you directly to the Northern Ticket Hall?

I don't think we observed that last August. If you come out where we did, south of the Eurostar booking hall and very close to the buffer stops end of the station, and you know that by going to the end you can reach the original ticket hall (TTH on the plan on this thread), from which the walk to the Victoria Line is shorter than if you go via the Northern Ticket Hall, you won't be looking for signs taking you the longer way round.

Actually, a quicker route than the one that's signed would be to go through the Eurostar booking hall and across the road.

I can see reasons why Kings Cross has been redesigned in the way that it has, but it isn't passenger-friendly. The OP said that if he was late for a mainline train he wouldn't like to have to dash along that long corridor. I should think anyone who has any difficulty walking doesn't much like it either. That's why a travellator would have been helpful.

rebmcr · 4 Mar 2014

It's nice to know that at least one Pic-Vic tunnel ended up getting built...

Tetchytyke · 4 Mar 2014

The tunnel from the Victoria line to the Piccadilly line isn't straight, so a Travelator wouldn't fit in it. I'm assuming that it's built with a kink for a reason, rather than purely for laughs.

The main hub of both Kings Cross and St Pancras is now roughly where the northern ticket hall is, rather than down at the buffer stops, so for most people the new layout works well.

Peter Mugridge · 4 Mar 2014

Surely that wouldn't stop them from doing a travelator in two parts?

Be3G · 4 Mar 2014

I imagine a two-part travelator could have safety implications as if one were to fail but the one behind it were still working with lots of people riding it, there could be a bit of a crush in the area between the two moving walkways.

transmanche · 4 Mar 2014

Arctic Troll said:
The tunnel from the Victoria line to the Piccadilly line isn't straight, so a Travelator wouldn't fit in it. I'm assuming that it's built with a kink for a reason, rather than purely for laughs.

And it's worth reiterating (for those who don't know) that the tunnel between the Victoria and Piccadilly lines (VIC HUB and PIC HUB in the plan upthread) was not new construction. It existed for many years as part of the access between the Underground station and King's Cross Thameslink station[*].

That section of tunnel has been retiled, but the section between VIC HUB and the old Thameslink station remains in its original condition - still with the 'SMILE' motifs. The part from PIC HUB towards the Northern Ticket Hall (NTH) is new construction and is much larger than the original tunnel.

* I can't remember when it was constructed, but it must have been at the time (or within a few years of) the King's Cross Midland City station opening.

spinba11 · 4 Mar 2014

And the up hill bit to the Vic line isn't wide enough for 2 travelators and space to walk in the middle.

Deerfold · 4 Mar 2014

Be3G said:
I imagine a two-part travelator could have safety implications as if one were to fail but the one behind it were still working with lots of people riding it, there could be a bit of a crush in the area between the two moving walkways.

At airports there is often a series of travelators interspersed with lengths that need to be walked across.

causton · 5 Mar 2014

Finally *that* explains where the old Thameslink entrance is! I could never work out where it was, even with use of that diagram

Would agree that travelators would help a lot but the passageway is not quite as wide as those in Waterloo, or Heathrow for example... don't know if it would work!

edwin_m · 5 Mar 2014

As someone mentioned above, with multiple travelators there is a risk of a pile-up if the second one stops and the first keeps feeding people into the blockage. I think there may be some kind of rule that requires an accessible space off to one side at a break between travelators to give people somewhere to go, but this wouldn't be possible in the tunnel.

Lockwood · 5 Mar 2014

transmanche said:
I think a plan of the station layout might help:

Where on that would the old Kings Cross Thameslink and the current St Pancakes Thameslink be?
ISTR the walk from KCSP Northern (I think) to the Thameslink platforms being quite epic

Nym · 5 Mar 2014

Far bottom right and far top left respectively...

Lockwood · 5 Mar 2014

Thanks.

I'd dread to think what a full render of the track and normal public access tunnels would look like.

Peter Mugridge · 5 Mar 2014

Is the rest of the old Thameslink access tunnel that leads to the back of the Piccadilly line platforms still in situ for staff purposes or has it been completely sealed off?

transmanche · 5 Mar 2014

Peter Mugridge said:
Is the rest of the old Thameslink access tunnel that leads to the back of the Piccadilly line platforms still in situ for staff purposes or has it been completely sealed off?

It's still in public use.

Or as I said earlier; "The passageway between VIC HUB and PIC HUB was originally the tunnel used to access King's Cross Thameslink station - and you can see on the plan that it continues south east from VIC HUB towards the old Thameslink station - which is still used as a part-time entrance to the tube station."

Peter Mugridge · 5 Mar 2014

The diagram does not, however, show the old entrance which was right at the back of the Piccadilly platforms - only the diversion into the middle.

transmanche · 5 Mar 2014

Peter Mugridge said:
The diagram does not, however, show the old entrance which was right at the back of the Piccadilly platforms - only the diversion into the middle.

Oh I see what you mean (it depends on what you mean by the 'back').

Isn't it that the access has simply been reversed in order to fit escalators in? You're accessing the same tunnel but just from the opposite side?

Peter Mugridge · 5 Mar 2014

I don't think so, as I recall I had to literally walk right to the back of the Piccadilly platforms to use the tunnel to KX Thameslink and there was a short flight of steps at the end there then it turned right to go over the westbound Piccadilly tunnel, after that pretty much straight ahead and level all the way.

transmanche · 5 Mar 2014

Peter Mugridge said:
I don't think so, as I recall I had to literally walk right to the back of the Piccadilly platforms to use the tunnel to KX Thameslink and there was a short flight of steps at the end there then it turned right to go over the westbound Piccadilly tunnel, after that pretty much straight ahead and level all the way.

Again it depends on which end you call 'the back'.

If approaching on the escalator down from the Tube Ticket Hall (TTH on the plan), then after a slight left turn at the bottom of the escalator, you just used to walk straight ahead to access the steps up to the Thameslink access tunnel. This is where the lift is now located.

This alternative 3D view may make it clearer.

Kings Cross mainline to Victoria Line

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